Hot rot wine and Evade

[Hoellenbote]

The only things, that really bugg me about this game. Maybe just change / balance?

[Talisman]

Hot Rot Wine has been brought up several times before. The mechanic is necessary for the potential last-minute victories or upsets; otherwise, it can be easy to fall so far behind that you have no chance of ever winning.

Evade is fine. What's wrong with evade?

[Big Lazy Fox]

Evade can be countered with pierces, which completely ignore shields (how evading actually works). While having someone abusing evade does not always grant someone will have a way to counter it, this can easily be prevented. (well not so easily, but there are ways)

For starters; as I mentioned before, we have Pierce, there are 2 items thus far that can grant you pierce, namely being Silver Lance (1 pierce anywhere, 2 pierce in plains), then we have Iron Pike (first rolled sword gains pierce while attacking, 1 deflect while defending), while the latter does NOT guarantee a pierce, it should still be a viable option considering Silver Lance is unique, and very rarely available for use.

Thane is the only hero that can easily counteract Evasion; his passive "Swordmaster" allows him to burn Sword cards (not lierally cards that are swords, but cards branded with the sword symbol) , those burned swords will pierce the oponents evasion, rendering it completely useless, only corresponding to the amount of cards burned.

Third but not least important, Spells and Perils; while these are completely RNG based, are common enough to usually find their way to your hands to use agaisnt the evader in question. A tactic I have used in the past, but not entirely keen on is using -wit effects on evaders; cards such as Feral, and Brazenberry Ale, both deduce 1 point of Wits from your opponent, allowing to even the chances in your favour. All it takes is a bit of savvy, and a lot of luck.

Edit: I just thought of a suggestion... A card called "sharpening stone" (at lack of a better name at the moment) grants you the chance to make your swords pierce when either burning cards, or... I dont know, burning spells or something of that sort, like that Snake Poison item. I`ll elaborate later.

[Dante Ironclaw]

Originally posted by Big Lazy Fox:

Evade can be countered with pierces, which completely ignore shields (how evading actually works). While having someone abusing evade does not always grant someone will have a way to counter it, this can easily be prevented. (well not so easily, but there are ways)

For starters; as I mentioned before, we have Pierce, there are 2 items thus far that can grant you pierce, namely being Silver Lance (1 pierce anywhere, 2 pierce in plains), then we have Iron Pike (first rolled sword gains pierce while attacking, 1 deflect while defending), while the latter does NOT guarantee a pierce, it should still be a viable option considering Silver Lance is unique, and very rarely available for use.

Thane is the only hero that can easily counteract Evasion; his passive "Swordmaster" allows him to burn Sword cards (not lierally cards that are swords, but cards branded with the sword symbol) , those burned swords will pierce the oponents evasion, rendering it completely useless, only corresponding to the amount of cards burned.

Third but not least important, Spells and Perils; while these are completely RNG based, are common enough to usually find their way to your hands to use agaisnt the evader in question. A tactic I have used in the past, but not entirely keen on is using -wit effects on evaders; cards such as Feral, and Brazenberry Ale, both deduce 1 point of Wits from your opponent, allowing to even the chances in your favour. All it takes is a bit of savvy, and a lot of luck.

Edit: I just thought of a suggestion... A card called "sharpening stone" (at lack of a better name at the moment) grants you the chance to make your swords pierce when either burning cards, or... I dont know, burning spells or something of that sort, like that Snake Poison item. I`ll elaborate later.

there is also the bow that gives the first burned moon pierce

[Big Lazy Fox]

Oh right, thank you! I knew I was missing an item... funny, I cant remember what the old effect of that card was. I think the bow is mighty useful, but that means using an item slot that could probably be used in a variety of more useful ways... hmm...

[Hey]

And hand cannons. A treasure from the future ^^

[Big Lazy Fox]

Hmmm right... those 2 require cards to burn, but also help with pierces. Options all fair to consider indeed.

[Hoellenbote]

I think, game mechanics that have requirements are a too big step to counter a mechanic, that basically comes with hero select. My proposititon to balance evade is: Let the attacker not roll shields. So you still usually have only roughly the same amount of dice, but the chance of doing some dmg is higher, while its still highly unlikely the evader gets killed by "normal" melee.

[Big Lazy Fox]

Thats an interesting opinion, but why not swords instead of shields? or perhaps something a bit harsher, evading automatically makes your dice NOT explode? when I say swords instead of shields I mean, its only logical that you do not attack while evading, but rather block, thus shields over swords! as for exploding?

Well... we know how that ends with evasion, you block 18 20 attacks when the poor would-be killer only scored 4 or 5 hits. Disabling exploding dice on evasion would certainly even the odds, at first glance of course!

[Hoellenbote]

Maybe i stated it wrong: Attacker can only roll offensive vs evade. So no 15 shields, while you are trying to stop that twiss.

[Kletian999]

Don't forget River's arrow is basically a free 1 pierce.

[Big Lazy Fox]

Oh I see what you mean DerMorderbarsch, that would be nice, but I wonder how it would work. Those are dice after all. What I think should happen is that the evader's dice just fail when rolling attack symbols (swords only so it doesn't make things too difficult on them) while also making their dice unable to explode. Though maybe that's just taking it too far.

[AndyLVV]

Evade needs a mechanical counter such as Berserk "All shields count as attacks". Would give you a chance against those pesky evaders in combat :)

[Kletian999]

But evade is a tradeoff. Berserking vs evade would be a no brainer.

[Dante Ironclaw]

poppet also takes care off those with evade, as there is no chance for them to kill you. so its a guaranteed 2dmg

[Tei]

Evade doesn't need a counter. You're already 100% moving the evading player with no risk. The only times when evade is an issue are with Twiss and lionheart breastplate on someone with permanent evade. Outside of Twiss' card stealing / magic spamming and lionheart, you can just ignore evading heroes. Lionheart should really prevent evasion, and Twiss could stand to just lose the card stealing completely.

Pierces aren't a very good answer to evade anyway. Besides Thane, you can only pierce once or twice with any single piece of gear. Evading heroes are less likely to be walking around with 1 or 2 hp for obvious reasons. If you really want to kill them in combat, you're often looking at multiple attacks while having the appropriate burns or getting a sword roll each time. You also need vision on them each time. It's not a consistent situation. Pierce is more meant to deal with shield walls that you're unlikely to move without it.