[spoiler] Truth/lie puzzle multiple possibility ?

[zeross39]

The truth / lie puzzle had me puzzled.
The correct solution is : lie - lie - truth - lie - lie - truth, basicaly everyone lie but the 2 that say "there are two or more liars".

But wouldn't this be correct also : lie - truth - truth - truth - lie - truth
basically the two that say "i'm telling the truth" are indeed telling the truth, and the two that say "there are two or more liars" are also both correct because there is two liars : the two that are telling "everyone is telling the truth"

why is the first one the correct one and what is wrong with the second ?

[Thoroniul]

The third one in your alternate solution is "Everyone but me is a liar." which means "I am the only truth". If this were a true statement, then the solution would be lie - lie - true - lie -lie - lie. Which is a contradiction to the other gargoyles.

[Playful Pear]

Thanks. That one was a bit tricky.
I am now struggling with the blue flames.

[zeross39]

Originally posted by Thoroniul:

The third one in your alternate solution is "Everyone but me is a liar." which means "I am the only truth". If this were a true statement, then the solution would be lie - lie - true - lie -lie - lie. Which is a contradiction to the other gargoyles.

i don't understand your answer. i don't see a "everyone but me is a liar" text in game
here is how i see it :

1- everyone is telling the truth : false, 5 is lying
2- i am telling the truth : true, why not
3- there are 2 or more liars : true, 1 and 5 are lying
4- i am telling the truth : true, why not
5- everyone is telling the truth : false, 1 is lying
6- there are 2 or more liars : true, 1 and 5 are lying

[Thoroniul]

Oh my apologies. I was assuming you were talking about the bonus puzzle.

[zeross39]

Originally posted by Thoroniul:

Oh my apologies. I was assuming you were talking about the bonus puzzle.

ah no i had no problem with this one and everything was clear to me. its the one in the room that is peraphs wrong from my point of view. but again i can also be wrong about it,i just can't find why yet.

[Thoroniul]

1. (Timer) Everyone is telling the truth.
2. (Mountain) There are two or more liars.
3. (Grain) I am telling the truth.

With a lock pattern of 1-2-3-2-1-3

your proposed alternate solution is lie-truth-truth

Taking the prespective of the doggos:
1. truth-truth-truth

2.
For 2 its a bit tricky since it ends up with a cyclical nature we have to think of the states it will be in. The opposite to two is there is 0 or 1 liars. So if two is false we have 0 or 1 liars. If its true we have 2 or more liars.

In your proposed solution it ends up as a contradiction since it only has 1 liar, with 2 being true.

3. X-X-True

[zeross39]

um maybe it's because i have a programmer state of thinking but a cyclic verity table is still a true table. i think it's either you take into account all the statement as once and my proposition is valid, or you apply them one by one in order and then it is not. debatable if we had a clue for taking them in order or not but it didn't strike me as it was.

[Thoroniul]

Originally posted by zeross39:

um maybe it's because i have a programmer state of thinking but a cyclic verity table is still a true table. i think it's either you take into account all the statement as once and my proposition is valid, or you apply them one by one in order and then it is not. debatable if we had a clue for taking them in order or not but it didn't strike me as it was.

This one has the gradient flow away from both solution's telling us that the solution is away from the swapping state.

the vector is lie-(truth/lie)-truth.

Looking at lie-truth-truth results in a False statement. So we try swapping the middle state.
Looking at lie-lie-truth results in an ambiguous, and incorrect statement. There are two lies, so the middle lie statement is a contradiction and gets flipped back to the lie-truth-truth statement (due to the rules of the second statement). This gives us a false cyclical. With the second space being locked like that as we can no longer pick it as a free variable. another bit must be flipped excluding the second and we end up with a gradient.

[Alyshae]

Originally posted by Playful Pear:

Thanks. That one was a bit tricky.
I am now struggling with the blue flames.

Blue flames had me going too until I noticed I could only see all three blue flames lit from one position, Dig there

[Playful Pear]

Originally posted by Alyshae:

Originally posted by Playful Pear:

Thanks. That one was a bit tricky.
I am now struggling with the blue flames.

Blue flames had me going too until I noticed I could only see all three blue flames lit from one position, Dig there

Thanks

[Eviltepel]

Originally posted by zeross39:

um maybe it's because i have a programmer state of thinking but a cyclic verity table is still a true table. i think it's either you take into account all the statement as once and my proposition is valid, or you apply them one by one in order and then it is not. debatable if we had a clue for taking them in order or not but it didn't strike me as it was.

Depends on how you interpret the puzzle. The statues are intended as the first puzzle and should be solved on their own, so there are only 3 liars/truthsayers instead of 6. Solving the statues then gives you the code for each of the 3 symbols which you apply to the lock.

[DarkMoney95]

i aren't sure where the confusion or alt answers are coming from?
1. Everyone is telling the truth
2. 2 or more are lying
3. I am telling the truth

if 1 was true then that would mean that 2 would be lying forcing 1 to be a lie.
because we know that 1 is lying, we know that 2 has to be telling the truth, because if 2 was lying then his statement if forced to be true, so he has to be telling the truth.
and to complete 2's statement 3 has to be lying.
maybe someone could explain the thought process to me on how another answer can be achieved?

[Panhardt]

The problem is there are only three speakers, the three figures on the wall. The positions on the lock aren't making the statements, they're calling for your response to that part of the riddle.

[Wild_Ben]

You can't think of it as 6 different scenarios. The symbols represent 3 different characters and you have to figure out what sceanrios are true and false, here is how to break it down:

Scenario 1: Everyone is telling the truth.

If everyone is telling the truth, then statement 2 ("2 or more are lying") would be false. This creates a contradiction because if everyone is truthful, then it's impossible for two or more people to be lying. Therefore, Scenario 1 cannot be correct.

Scenario 2: 2 or more are lying.

Let's consider if exactly two people are lying. If statement 1 is a lie, and statement 3 is a lie, then statement 2 ("2 or more are lying") would be true. This scenario is logically consistent.

What if all three statements are lies? If statement 1 is a lie, statement 2 ("2 or more are lying") is true, which contradicts the assumption that it's a lie. So, all three cannot be lying.

Scenario 3: I am telling the truth.

If statement 3 ("I am telling the truth") is true, then at least one person is telling the truth. This doesn't immediately tell us about the truthfulness of statements 1 and 2.
However, if statement 3 is true, could statement 1 also be true? We already determined that Scenario 1 leads to a contradiction.
If statement 3 is true and statement 1 and 2 is a lie, then statement 2 automatically becomes true which is contradicting.