At 1800 passengers transported, all my stations start to flood.

[Lantantan]

So in Osaka twice in a row now, all my stations at the same time start rapidly spawning new people (about 16 in within 10 seconds, each). Is this some new weird challenge thing or just a bug?

[Robert]

The rate at which the passengers appear does ramp up towards the end of the game, but it definitely shouldn't be that fast! Next time it happens could you please send the log and a screenshot to [e-mail]?

[Lantantan]

I already took some screenshots, could you tell me where to find the log so I can send you both? Yesterday the same thing happened to me on another map around 1800 passengers, but it's a rare occurence on other maps.

[DiMono]

I got something like this in Melbourne today. The population just suddenly went sharply upwards, and while I was having no difficulty keeping up with the passengers before then, it immediately became unsustainable. This happens rather frequently, actually.

I don't know if this is useful at all, but here's a screenshot of the map I took very near the end of my Melbourne run:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857382599

[DiMono]

Correction: it happened in my Cairo run today:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857397271

I continued in Endless mode afterwards, which is why the spikes are so far back in the graph. Basically, the moment the last station lands on the map (according to the graph), the population goes through the roof. Day 55: 204 people. Day 64: 260 people. Day 73: 684 people. Here's what the map looked like when the run ended:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857258032

The blue line in particular was a perfect line: no two consecutive stations were the same, and there was even distribution between them. That line should have never been overloaded, but it went up just like the rest of them. Apparently the population more than doubling overnight will do that to you. lol

I hope this helps.

[Lantantan]

Hi DiMono, thats exactly what happened to me! My screenshots look exactly like this, every single station suddenly getting a burst of 16 passengers. Sorry to see you lost such a great Melbourne run. I've been trying to replicate the bug yesterday but ofcourse it didn't trigger when I wanted it to. I do recall that i've never seen this show up around low passenger numbers, it's always with 1000+ transported.

[DiMono]

Originally posted by Lantantan:

Hi DiMono, thats exactly what happened to me! My screenshots look exactly like this, every single station suddenly getting a burst of 16 passengers. Sorry to see you lost such a great Melbourne run. I've been trying to replicate the bug yesterday but ofcourse it didn't trigger when I wanted it to. I do recall that i've never seen this show up around low passenger numbers, it's always with 1000+ transported.

It apparently happens when the last station appears on the map. Which is why it's difficult to reach - most games end before then.

[DiMono]

Originally posted by Lantantan:

I already took some screenshots, could you tell me where to find the log so I can send you both? Yesterday the same thing happened to me on another map around 1800 passengers, but it's a rare occurence on other maps.

Instructions for finding the log are at http://dinopoloclub.com/minimetro/support.php

Note that only the log for the most recent session is saved there, so if you open the game again then the information for the previous session will be overwritten. Next time you encounter this, you'll want to close the game and immediately grab the log before running the game again.

[DiMono]

I just experienced it in Hong Kong, and I've sent an email to [e-mail] with two screenshots and the log file. What I noticed is that Peep Boost is being called every 6 hours after the stations max out. In Hong Kong that is particularly punishing, because it happens only 5 weeks into the run. For convenience, here are the screenshots and the relevant part of the log:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857843446

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857843805

CityPlanner: Skipped 0 / 0 stations in this schedule.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Processing next station schedule, containing 11 stations.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Failed to open station SPECIAL.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: At maximum zoom. No more SPECIAL stations can be opened.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 853.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 859.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 865.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Failed to open station TRIANGLE.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: At maximum zoom. No more TRIANGLE stations can be opened.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 871.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 877.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 883.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 889.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 895.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 901.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Failed to open station CIRCLE.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: At maximum zoom. No more CIRCLE stations can be opened.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 907.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 913.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 919.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 925.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 931.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 937.

[DiMono]

Here's an even better visualization of the spike:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857891550

I had a series of loops that was doing absolutely perfectly, and until the last station landed I never had more than 3 angry passengers. Then the peep boost started hitting and suddenly a billion new people showed up and they were all angry.

On most other maps this isn't that bad, because you have time to prepare. Hong Kong is particularly punishing for it because all ~36 stations show up in just 5 weeks. And for some reason square stations seem particularly rare in Hong Kong. I got lucky in this run and had a second one spawn, but as soon as the last station showed up it was too late. This was my late game set up:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857899335

[DiMono]

Hmm. Maybe not linked to station max being reached. Maximum zoom, though. Though honestly, with better RNG for the placements of the square stations this would have been holdable.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=858158523

CityPlanner: Opening station CIRCLE at hour 1852.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Failed to open station SQUARE.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: At maximum zoom. No more SQUARE stations can be opened.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Skipped 1 / 8 stations in this schedule.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Processing next station schedule, containing 8 stations.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 1874.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

CityPlanner: Add peep boost at hour 1880.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

...

[Lantantan]

Wait, your spike ended? This looks like a similar but different bug.

[DiMono]

Originally posted by Lantantan:

Wait, your spike ended? This looks like a similar but different bug.

It ended when I switched to endless mode.

[DiMono]

This problem is especially prevalent in Hong Kong, where you reach maximum station capacity after 5 weeks and don't have the resources to deal with all the passengers. I recorded two videos demonstrating the problem. The first is a full playthrough using ghost lines, where the idea was just to get to the point where it happens. The second is just the tail end of a run that didn't use ghost lines, where I only wanted to demonstrate that it's not just ghost lines that make you lose when this happens.

https://youtu.be/pK7wJyj1G_c

https://youtu.be/sV_2HDQHIFU

[DiMono]

Proving mathematically that it's impossible to continue in Hong Kong:

You get about 36 stations. At that point in the game you have 11 locomotives, and a maximum of 4 carriages if you never take lines or tunnels, for a maximum capacity of 90. If every station is as closely spaced as possible, it takes 5 seconds to unload, load, and travel to the next station, but practically, that's never the case. It averages to something closer to 8 seconds. As demonstrated in the video above, new passengers show up about every 2 seconds, at about 25 of the stations.

That's 100 new passengers in the time it takes to deliver at most 90. Which doesn't seem too bad, except that since you only have 11 trains, you can only load up from 11 stations. So 14 of them go with unchecked growth. Now we look at the second 8 second period: another 100 passengers show up, and under absolutely ideal conditions, you load up another 90 from 11 more stations. Meanwhile, 3 of them have just gained 8 passengers without being picked up.

So under ideal conditions, we have at least 3 flooding stations. It shouldn't be too hard to clean that up, right? Let's look at round 3: another 100 new passengers, and we'll be generous and say that carriages allow the three overloaded stations to be fully cleaned up. The other 8 trains are at stations that weren't flooding. Meanwhile, the other 22 stations behind them all pick up new passengers. And 11 of them have picked up 8 in the last two cycles. That's 11 flooding stations, and your trains will only get to 8 of them in round 4. So once the flooding starts, you basically have about 45 seconds before your game ends, under ideal conditions.

However, the game never gives us ideal conditions. The reality is that you're not going to be picking up only passengers who need to go to the next station. So instead of a train without a carriage picking up 6, delivering them successfully at the next station, and picking up 6 more, what frequently happens is it picks up 6, drops off maybe 1 or 2, and then only loads up enough to replace those that got off. Or it can't drop anyone at the next station and skips it entirely. So while the first round may see only +10, the second round will more realistically see +70, and the next round is likely to see +100 as you deal with other stations.

This quick math accurately reflects what can be observed in my two videos above. The second one especially. The map started to flood about 10 seconds before I started recording, and I only got about 20 more seconds of gameplay in before losing.

It is absolutely important to increase difficulty in the late game by increasing the passenger count, but it must be done at a rate that is mathematically possible to deal with.

[DiMono]

I did one more run at Hong Kong with the "optimal passenger capacity" strategy, to see if it was a winning one. My proof of concept run proved my concept: passengers just come too quickly, even when you have a capacity of almost 100.

https://youtu.be/4re7VTvtxvw

Unless someone has a better strategy for Hong Kong that I'm not thinking of, I'm comfortable saying that this is a problem. I haven't tested in Osaka, but balance is definitely an issue in Hong Kong. Unless this is intended, in which case the scores over about 1500 may have issues.