The problem with Quidditch

[Anapoda]

Ok, it's cool to watch in the movies. No denying that.

The problem though is that as a sport it doesn't make much sense.

Let's face it, It has been made by Rowling with one purpose in mind, for Harry to have something cool to do. To be even more "special". (in a good way)

The rules are silly and everything is made for the seeker (harry) to be pretty much the only player who matters.

And that, is precisely why there isn't more quidditch video games. Cause it doesn't make for good gameplay.

[Niliu]

Originally posted by sir.eggy:

Originally posted by Anapoda:

And that, is precisely why there isn't more quidditch video games. Cause it doesn't make for good gameplay.

In Flat you might be right, but in VR it could work :)

The rules don't change in VR. Unless you're the seeker, you're useless

[Niliu]

Originally posted by CASTEL:

And that's why the developers took some creative liberties, much like the developers for Hogwarts Legacy did. A game doesn't need to be an exact copy of how it was in the books.

Actually when it's an element of the books with well defined rules that haven't changed for hundreds of years, yes, it does need to be a copy, otherwise it isn't Quidditch

[Niliu]

Originally posted by Mythical Ostrich:

You're wrong lol

Evidence or that's an attack.

[|PHX| n e o]

Originally posted by Niliu:

Originally posted by CASTEL:

And that's why the developers took some creative liberties, much like the developers for Hogwarts Legacy did. A game doesn't need to be an exact copy of how it was in the books.

Actually when it's an element of the books with well defined rules that haven't changed for hundreds of years, yes, it does need to be a copy, otherwise it isn't Quidditch

"Haven't changed for hundreds of years" in universe u dork, reality can be more practical than that and if you have to modify a couple rules to make it be fun and playable in a videogame then so be it. For the record, even real life sports update their rules from time to time or add new rules so you really have nothing to stand on for that argument rofl. 😂

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by Bread:

Played the beta and they made it so the seeker doesn't get as many points as in the books. It still gives a bunch of points but nothing you can't overcome with good play in the other roles. It plays a lot like Rocket League with extra stuff to do.

That change is a blatant disrespect for HP lore, though, and I can't help but feel that they could have come up with a better idea.

My own thoughts: start the game with a cinematic of a never-ending Quidditch match, and then show a newspaper article about a change of rules that Quidditch games have a time limit now, even if the Snitch is not caught. Then, make the Snitch really hard to catch. If a seeker manages to catch the Snitch, they can usually win the game for their team (exceptions can and should arise if the game is designed to have a very high number of goals). In most cases, though, the Snitch will remain uncaught and the goals decide the game.

I think most fans would have accepted that minor change in the lore if there is an in-universe story to it, as I described. And it would still be true to the spirit of the HP lore. Imagine what an uplifting moment it would be when you catch the Snitch!

[Ass Grabums]

This comes off like a fundamental misunderstanding of how Quidditch works, and definitely one of how it is in this game/how it can be.

Quidditch isn't only about the Seeker. We see 2 examples in the books alone for example when the Seeker catching the snitch didn't win their team the match. With matches lasting until the snitch is caught, and sometimes lasting for literal days, that's a lot of room for the Seeker catching the snitch being being less important than regular goals. After all, the snitch is only worth 15 of those. Besides, without the beaters, the seeker would get beaten out of the game pretty quickly.

Now obviously, an e-sports multiplayer game can't regularly have games lasting for that long. That's why they've greatly simplified gameplay, limited the number of human players, and rebalanced the value of catching the Snitch vs getting regular goals. Does it work? Absolutely. Did they execute it well? Ehhh, I'll let you be the judge of that when it comes out. But it certainly can be worked out to be reasonably faithful to how the game is in canon and still work as an e-sports game.

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by Ass Grabums:

This comes off like a fundamental misunderstanding of how Quidditch works, and definitely one of how it is in this game/how it can be.

Quidditch isn't only about the Seeker. We see 2 examples in the books alone for example when the Seeker catching the snitch didn't win their team the match. With matches lasting until the snitch is caught, and sometimes lasting for literal days, that's a lot of room for the Seeker catching the snitch being being less important than regular goals. After all, the snitch is only worth 15 of those. Besides, without the beaters, the seeker would get beaten out of the game pretty quickly.

Now obviously, an e-sports multiplayer game can't regularly have games lasting for that long. That's why they've greatly simplified gameplay, limited the number of human players, and rebalanced the value of catching the Snitch vs getting regular goals. Does it work? Absolutely. Did they execute it well? Ehhh, I'll let you be the judge of that when it comes out. But it certainly can be worked out to be reasonably faithful to how the game is in canon and still work as an e-sports game.

Indeed, but instead of a game meant primarily for e-sports, I would have preferred a faithful recreation of Quidditch. According to what I'm reading about this one, it seems more like a Quidditch-inspired game than an actual Quidditch game at this point.

[Where'sMySupersuit!!]

People know Quidditch is a real sport now right? Like its not called Quidditch anymore but its the same game essentially.

In context of this video game no it doesn't work, mainly because its a 3v3 game with role switching. They need the full 7v7 or 6v6 to make this actually work, it wouldn't make the game any less boring but at least you will be playing in a full match instead of the dumb idea they got going on rn.

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by Where'sMySupersuit!!:

People know Quidditch is a real sport now right? Like its not called Quidditch anymore but its the same game essentially.

It's just as real as these guys are real knights riding real horses. :)

https://64.media.tumblr.com/01ab81b73390390b305c630ed8e5a7c1/tumblr_nu2dp8ojRi1qzk2apo1_500.gif

Speaking more seriously, quadball is officially defined as a Quidditch-inspired sport, not Quidditch per se. In my opinion, all it did was damage the public image of the HP fandom and Quidditch, removing it from the safe space of fictional sports and entertaining the general public with broom-riding, crazy Potterheads. It's also the sport that gutted the seeker role, assigning a 30-point value to the Snitch, an approach lazily adopted by the developers of the present game as well. (As I pointed out above, there are many more possible solutions to the balance problem within the context of a video game than within the boundaries of a real sport, but finding a good one would have required some real thought given to the matter.)

[Where'sMySupersuit!!]

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

I don't know much about Quidditch itself but I assume the Snitch is a game ender like the Nuke is in CoD. In any case in CoD you have to at least be really good, super lucky, or play against a garbo team. And from what I understand about being the Seeker in universe you actually need to have talent.

The only way I see the Snitch actually being a game ender thing would mean that the devs would need to put serious effort behind the mechanics that the player interacts with as the Seeker. Cuz as it works rn its just a super easy waiting game that requires barely any thinking for the Seeker which makes sense why its only 30 points.

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by Where'sMySupersuit!!:

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

I don't know much about Quidditch itself but I assume the Snitch is a game ender like the Nuke is in CoD. In any case in CoD you have to at least be really good, super lucky, or play against a garbo team. And from what I understand about being the Seeker in universe you actually need to have talent.

The only way I see the Snitch actually being a game ender thing would mean that the devs would need to put serious effort behind the mechanics that the player interacts with as the Seeker. Cuz as it works rn its just a super easy waiting game that requires barely any thinking for the Seeker which makes sense why its only 30 points.

I fully agree. They should have made Snitch-chasing a serious game, with abilites to sniff out which area the Snitch may be in, responding to barely visible signs such as a reflected golden ray of light, and interacting heavily with the other seeker, the beaters and their Bludgers, and perhaps lightly with the chasers during the Snitch-hunt.

To compensate for the 15-goal value of the Snitch, they should have made matches a lot longer and very rich in goals, perhaps with combos you may activate to score a serious of goals in quick succession during a cutscene. Or introduce a confidence mechanic in which the winning team is gaining confidence that affects gameplay and makes them more likely to score goals, turning a 4-goal difference quickly into a 20-goal lead unless the Snitch is caught before that happens. Or introduce a new rule in which a Snitch does not necessarily have to be caught, as I explained above. There are so many better options compared to what they did here!

[Where'sMySupersuit!!]

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

Forgot about the Beaters, they are pretty useless against the Seekers from what I got and are better to used just consta smack the Keepers or anyone chasing a teammate with the ball. Sure the Seeker gets 30 points but its drastically faster to do goals than it is for seeker to finally fill the bar.

Also do the hoops give different point values, because I literally don't know what they do, if they don't then those 30 points mean even less to me.

Game just needs simple changes, better "driving," full team so 7v7 or 6v6 (in this case), Better depth with Seeker role, overall just need better flow. Its just not dynamic in any way, the player needs more control.



Rocket League, I personally don't care about that game but when I compare the two its no contest. That game does what this game needs in practically every way, its all about that flow.

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by Where'sMySupersuit!!:

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

Forgot about the Beaters, they are pretty useless against the Seekers from what I got and are better to used just consta smack the Keepers or anyone chasing a teammate with the ball. Sure the Seeker gets 30 points but its drastically faster to do goals than it is for seeker to finally fill the bar.

If that is true (I haven't playtested the game myself), then it's a clear sign of how poorly balanced the game is. When the seekers go diving for the Snitch, they should become top priority targets for all beaters in a highly dramatic moment of the match. I refuse to accept this game as Quidditch with only a 30-point value assigned to the Snitch.

[Ass Grabums]

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

Originally posted by Where'sMySupersuit!!:

I don't know much about Quidditch itself but I assume the Snitch is a game ender like the Nuke is in CoD. In any case in CoD you have to at least be really good, super lucky, or play against a garbo team. And from what I understand about being the Seeker in universe you actually need to have talent.

The only way I see the Snitch actually being a game ender thing would mean that the devs would need to put serious effort behind the mechanics that the player interacts with as the Seeker. Cuz as it works rn its just a super easy waiting game that requires barely any thinking for the Seeker which makes sense why its only 30 points.

I fully agree. They should have made Snitch-chasing a serious game, with abilites to sniff out which area the Snitch may be in, responding to barely visible signs such as a reflected golden ray of light, and interacting heavily with the other seeker, the beaters and their Bludgers, and perhaps lightly with the chasers during the Snitch-hunt.

To compensate for the 15-goal value of the Snitch, they should have made matches a lot longer and very rich in goals, perhaps with combos you may activate to score a serious of goals in quick succession during a cutscene. Or introduce a confidence mechanic in which the winning team is gaining confidence that affects gameplay and makes them more likely to score goals, turning a 4-goal difference quickly into a 20-goal lead unless the Snitch is caught before that happens. Or introduce a new rule in which a Snitch does not necessarily have to be caught, as I explained above. There are so many better options compared to what they did here!

I definitely agree that catching the snitch should have been a more challenging part of the game. As is, it's not difficult, its just a time gate. Having it work based on barely visible cues though is problematic for a video game; you run the risk of the winners just being people who can run the game on the highest graphical settings.

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by Ass Grabums:

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

I fully agree. They should have made Snitch-chasing a serious game, with abilites to sniff out which area the Snitch may be in, responding to barely visible signs such as a reflected golden ray of light, and interacting heavily with the other seeker, the beaters and their Bludgers, and perhaps lightly with the chasers during the Snitch-hunt.

To compensate for the 15-goal value of the Snitch, they should have made matches a lot longer and very rich in goals, perhaps with combos you may activate to score a serious of goals in quick succession during a cutscene. Or introduce a confidence mechanic in which the winning team is gaining confidence that affects gameplay and makes them more likely to score goals, turning a 4-goal difference quickly into a 20-goal lead unless the Snitch is caught before that happens. Or introduce a new rule in which a Snitch does not necessarily have to be caught, as I explained above. There are so many better options compared to what they did here!

I definitely agree that catching the snitch should have been a more challenging part of the game. As is, it's not difficult, its just a time gate. Having it work based on barely visible cues though is problematic for a video game; you run the risk of the winners just being people who can run the game on the highest graphical settings.

That could be true, it needs to be skill-based. Unfortunately, seeing the way the game works now, the whole discussion is moot.