X2 The Threat and X3 Reunion reviews

[Gary Red]

I'm an old gamer and it seems as though some people are saying Egosoft has always released badly tested and buggy software that doesnt work - like as though it is something we should all expect.

Well I'm old enough to have bought and paid for X2 The Threat on CD ROM.

I have the copy in front of me now.

"The best space game ever 92% PCZONE.
X2 fills every niche I've coverted since teh days of Elite II - PC GAMER 87%
It's a huge, brilliant game and good value as it can be played for months - STARBURST 5/5
we think this could be one of biggest games of the year - COMPUTER ACTIVE 5/5

Windows XP 128mb required. Pentium III 800mhz.

Oh and I have X3 Reunion on DVD ROM as well,,, reviews 92% and 10/10 etc

Compare and contrast, enjoy 8)

[kingaires]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Oprindeligt skrevet af kingaires:

This Ferrett Leader must be the world champion at Dodge Ball...

TRY to stay focused on the discussion...

Why, you aren't discussing, you are recording your own thoughts and playing them back for your personal enjoyment.

We have already proven you to be completely illogical and you do not debate the facts, you ignore them and then make up new standards as you go along.

[Ferret Leader]

Oprindeligt skrevet af kingaires:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

TRY to stay focused on the discussion...

Why, you aren't discussing, you are recording your own thoughts and playing them back for your personal enjoyment.

We have already proven you to be completely illogical and you do not debate the facts, you ignore them and then make up new standards as you go along.

No, you give me... "facts"... which I promptly refute and provide more valid facts (Example: showing you that the IGN review of X3:R was made after the game was released). Then you say stuff like this while giving no reason or basis (I have to assume it is because you have none).

[EasyToFind]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Oprindeligt skrevet af mylestone:

You miss the point that the game was STABLE on release, and could be played, while this crashed, and bugs out.

It didn't take a year to get it to a playable state, this is where you all seem to be confused.

1 thing Egosoft is notorious for, is NOT knowing how deep you have to make a game like this, in order for your whole motto to even come close to working "Trade, Fight, Think, Build"

All of those things were possible in the previous X games, however, were done so on the most basic level possible, BUT they worked...

The tradition lives on in Rebirth, with the most BASIC functions of "Trade, Fight, Think, Build" again being implemented, the only problem with this one, is that none of these actually work, and the build is nothing more than a "Fill in the blanks" instead of being able to build your own little sub-hub along the highway to build your homebase empire from. No, instead, you have to put your stations (whichever one you choose) in pre-determined spots, hence, fill in the blanks.

The community built the previous X games up to snuff within a few years, implementing more complex AI, improved trading routines, fighting routines, etc... Since the basic functions we're there, more complex solutions could be derived from them, and since the basic functions in rebirth are broken, and the economy seems to have major issues, nobody can build on them to make more complex routines. Even pathing in Rebirth is heavily damaged, which I suspect is one of the major reasons for "Fill in the blank" station placement.

I think yu're over exadurating. The game seems to be stable for most people, with some people complaining of their game crashing, not unlike most games after they are released.

There are game breaking bugs, that make players edit save files, JUST so they MIGHT be able to proceed, this was not existent in any previous X games, all basic functions worked on release.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

There is also nothing wrong with making a game more basic, EXPECIALY when you have a game like tehe games in the X serise. They are notoriously unfair to new players. The first time I played an X game, I was actually able to get a considerable number of ships. After selling all of them except the default ship, I did not even have enough money to afford repairs. Of course, after a long time of playing, I know that if I eject from my ship I can repair it manually. The problem is that the game NEVER tells you this, even in the flight school.

Not a single person ever stated that previous X games were easy to figure out, again, fallowing suit with "Providing the most basic functions, including information on said functions". Making money is not hard in the X games, if you have basic knowledge of supply and demand, don't fault a game that's based on S&D simply because you don't understand S&D.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Honestly, it shouldn't mater that much that you can only put your station in certain spots. If anything, that's more realistic. Think about X3- No one cared wher you put your station. At all.(I assume that you can't put a station in fromt of a jumpgate, but I have never tested this.) As long as you can put the station you want in a certain sector, the exact location doesn't really matter.

Putting a station right in front of an exiting highway is just stupid in the first place. But in MY game, I would like the OPTION to build my empire off a highway somewhere that is empty space, so I can construct MY empire the way I want to, this is true sandbox.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

In the rest of this, you seem to be pointing out that the old X games had to have the community work on them in order to improve, and I honestly don't see how this is relevant unless you say that they had something to build up from, which X Rebirth certainly does have. I would say that the game needs a few more menues and (if it doesn't already have it) some trading automation, which shouldn't be that hard to do.

You don't seem to understand the basics of what basics are, and how they need to function in order to be built upon.

The basics don't work in X:R, the basic trade features are broken, not entirely, but still are, the basic fighting functions are broken, not entirely, but still are, the basic pathing is broken, not entirely, but still is, the basic everything is broken, meaning nobody can improve on them until their fixed, and since the basic economy is broken, which is the very heart of the game the game may not be able to be brought to fruition, which means all of this potential could not be realized at all. Similar to a genius kid growing up to be a crack head, potential lost.

[Ferret Leader]

Oprindeligt skrevet af mylestone:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

I think yu're over exadurating. The game seems to be stable for most people, with some people complaining of their game crashing, not unlike most games after they are released.

There are game breaking bugs, that make players edit save files, JUST so they MIGHT be able to proceed, this was not existent in any previous X games, all basic functions worked on release.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

There is also nothing wrong with making a game more basic, EXPECIALY when you have a game like tehe games in the X serise. They are notoriously unfair to new players. The first time I played an X game, I was actually able to get a considerable number of ships. After selling all of them except the default ship, I did not even have enough money to afford repairs. Of course, after a long time of playing, I know that if I eject from my ship I can repair it manually. The problem is that the game NEVER tells you this, even in the flight school.

Not a single person ever stated that previous X games were easy to figure out, again, fallowing suit with "Providing the most basic functions, including information on said functions". Making money is not hard in the X games, if you have basic knowledge of supply and demand, don't fault a game that's based on S&D simply because you don't understand S&D.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Honestly, it shouldn't mater that much that you can only put your station in certain spots. If anything, that's more realistic. Think about X3- No one cared wher you put your station. At all.(I assume that you can't put a station in fromt of a jumpgate, but I have never tested this.) As long as you can put the station you want in a certain sector, the exact location doesn't really matter.

Putting a station right in front of an exiting highway is just stupid in the first place. But in MY game, I would like the OPTION to build my empire off a highway somewhere that is empty space, so I can construct MY empire the way I want to, this is true sandbox.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

In the rest of this, you seem to be pointing out that the old X games had to have the community work on them in order to improve, and I honestly don't see how this is relevant unless you say that they had something to build up from, which X Rebirth certainly does have. I would say that the game needs a few more menues and (if it doesn't already have it) some trading automation, which shouldn't be that hard to do.

You don't seem to understand the basics of what basics are, and how they need to function in order to be built upon.

The basics don't work in X:R, the basic trade features are broken, not entirely, but still are, the basic fighting functions are broken, not entirely, but still are, the basic pathing is broken, not entirely, but still is, the basic everything is broken, meaning nobody can improve on them until their fixed, and since the basic economy is broken, which is the very heart of the game the game may not be able to be brought to fruition, which means all of this potential could not be realized at all. Similar to a genius kid growing up to be a crack head, potential lost.

To answer this in order...

X3 had massive game breaking bugs, remember?
http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/12/07/x3-the-reunion?page=3
"The 1.21.01 patch I mentioned finds the game more stable and the quest holes fixed, but still leaves many other problems intact."

I DO understand S&D. The thing is that the game lacks a tutorial on basic things like geting out of your ship, trading, using the menues in the horrorable interface, etc. You know how most games start off easy and then gradualy get harder? X3 starts off hard and then gets pointlessly easy.

I honestly have to agree somewhat, but this can easily be patched in later. Like the ability to buy a sector in X3AP.

Basics- Stations produce stuff, ships transport stuff to stations that need stuff. Just add some menues and basic commands and you're all set. Also, if you're going to say something is proken, PLEASE give the reasons why it is broken.

[EasyToFind]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Also, if you're going to say something is Broken, PLEASE give the reasons why it is broken.

Semi valid points, except this... I even fixed ur typo.

How this game is broken is common knowledge, why would I sit here and list the exact same things that have been listed probably a thousand times already. I'm not a jukebox, you can't make me "play" whatever information you want to hear, especially when there is a PLETHORA of information on this very forum relating to exactly how this game is broken.

[kingaires]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

X3 had massive game breaking bugs, remember?
http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/12/07/x3-the-reunion?page=3
"The 1.21.01 patch I mentioned finds the game more stable and the quest holes fixed, but still leaves many other problems intact."

Even with the "bugs" not fixed in first month X3 Reunion Patch... the game got an 8/10

Rebirth can't even muster half of that.

By the way, the 1.21.01 patch was the third patch.

[Ferret Leader]

Oprindeligt skrevet af kingaires:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

X3 had massive game breaking bugs, remember?
http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/12/07/x3-the-reunion?page=3
"The 1.21.01 patch I mentioned finds the game more stable and the quest holes fixed, but still leaves many other problems intact."

Even with the "bugs" not fixed in first month X3 Reunion Patch... the game got an 8/10

Rebirth can't even muster half of that.

By the way, the 1.21.01 patch was the third patch.

I'm sure the bad reviews don't have anything to do with the community outrage.

[Ferret Leader]

Oprindeligt skrevet af mylestone:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Also, if you're going to say something is Broken, PLEASE give the reasons why it is broken.

Semi valid points, except this... I even fixed ur typo.

How this game is broken is common knowledge, why would I sit here and list the exact same things that have been listed probably a thousand times already. I'm not a jukebox, you can't make me "play" whatever information you want to hear, especially when there is a PLETHORA of information on this very forum relating to exactly how this game is broken.

Honestly, the only thing that I've seen that is truely broken is the energy cell mission (It made me quit and start free play)

[EasyToFind]

"Coming Soon, The most ultimate calculator ever conceived.

With this Calculator you can do complex algorithms with ease.

Add, Subtract, Multiply, Divide, you can even find out the square root.

Footage is of actual Calculator"

Then you buy it, notice it ONLY has the 4 buttons on it, add, subtract, multiply, divide, outside of number buttons of course.

You then find out that to find the square root of a number, you have to manually do it with the calculator, there is no built in feature to do it.

On top of that, when you press the 9, it comes up with 8, and 2+2 for some reason with this calculator = 7.

How I would feel about this calculator, after spending $50 on it, is exactly how I feel about this game.

[kingaires]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Oprindeligt skrevet af mylestone:

Semi valid points, except this... I even fixed ur typo.

How this game is broken is common knowledge, why would I sit here and list the exact same things that have been listed probably a thousand times already. I'm not a jukebox, you can't make me "play" whatever information you want to hear, especially when there is a PLETHORA of information on this very forum relating to exactly how this game is broken.

Honestly, the only thing that I've seen that is truely broken is the energy cell mission (It made me quit and start free play)

Trade ships don't trade
There is no UI for fleet command
You can't see crew skills
You have to talk to NPCs in person
There is only 4 weapons for your ONE ship
Player ships won't defend themselves or attack anything
There is actually no trade between stations, clutter ships are fake
There is nothing to explore outside the immediate areas around stations
The game is at best half the size of Terran Conflict with 1/10th station count
Shipyards produce ships from thin air, they get no job other than a Die order
Shipyards produce these ships even if the shipyard is gone
There is one station in one sector that produces a material needed for all other stations
Saved games are being corrupted
Saved games need to be modified
Ships won't repair
Ships won't follow orders
There are 100 items that have no effect on the game and are part of a fiat trade system, that the AI doesn't participate in.

And that is just want I can think of off the top of my head... no tell us how awesome the game is and try and spin a 2005 X3 release in your favor again...

[EasyToFind]

Oprindeligt skrevet af kingaires:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Honestly, the only thing that I've seen that is truely broken is the energy cell mission (It made me quit and start free play)

Trade ships don't trade
There is no UI for fleet command
You can't see crew skills
You have to talk to NPCs in person
There is only 4 weapons for your ONE ship
Player ships won't defend themselves or attack anything
There is actually no trade between stations, clutter ships are fake
There is nothing to explore outside the immediate areas around stations
The game is at best half the size of Terran Conflict with 1/10th station count
Shipyards produce ships from thin air, they get no job other than a Die order
Shipyards produce these ships even if the shipyard is gone
There is one station in one sector that produces a material needed for all other stations
Saved games are being corrupted
Saved games need to be modified
Ships won't repair
Ships won't follow orders
There are 100 items that have no effect on the game and are part of a fiat trade system, that the AI doesn't participate in.

And that is just want I can think of off the top of my head... no tell us how awesome the game is and try and spin a 2005 X3 release in your favor again...

Almost all of this has been admitted by egosoft, again, just do a search for proof, so don't even try to say "I havn't experienced any problems in these area's" because the devs themselves have admitted most of it

[nobrien]

X 3 reunion wasnt broken, you could trade build fight think. just parts of the plot you became stuck in or would crash on reload, I played Xr plot with only 1 issiue up untill the last stand were i would be stuck in the sector,

No big deal because EVERYTHING else worked, i could build my complexes make my fleets fight my wars explore everywhere and did so, i would have had 2-300 hours in that game b4 i restarted after the final patch fixed everything.

The X series has always been complicated and because of that you expect hicups as players play their games differently and try things you may never have had happen b4. BUT the GAME's were fine I also played every game as soon as it was available to me and went back and forth over the years between them all.

Rebirth is 85% missing there isnt 1 aspect of the game that isnt broken and what scares me more is that from the small amounts we can see the game has horrible design flaws everywhere.

[Ferret Leader]

Oprindeligt skrevet af kingaires:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Honestly, the only thing that I've seen that is truely broken is the energy cell mission (It made me quit and start free play)

Trade ships don't trade
There is no UI for fleet command
You can't see crew skills
You have to talk to NPCs in person
There is only 4 weapons for your ONE ship
Player ships won't defend themselves or attack anything
There is actually no trade between stations, clutter ships are fake
There is nothing to explore outside the immediate areas around stations
The game is at best half the size of Terran Conflict with 1/10th station count
Shipyards produce ships from thin air, they get no job other than a Die order
Shipyards produce these ships even if the shipyard is gone
There is one station in one sector that produces a material needed for all other stations
Saved games are being corrupted
Saved games need to be modified
Ships won't repair
Ships won't follow orders
There are 100 items that have no effect on the game and are part of a fiat trade system, that the AI doesn't participate in.

And that is just want I can think of off the top of my head... no tell us how awesome the game is and try and spin a 2005 X3 release in your favor again...

Answered in order...

Confirmed bug- patchable
Easily fixable with a patch
You can. You can't see it for new hires (most of the time) explained in the plot- Can't trust peopel when they talk about their own qualifications.
Is that such a bad thing? Really?
Upgrades
Erm... You expect the ship you are flying to defend itsself for you?
I've never seen anyone actually prove this. There are "fake" ships, but I'm not sure if they are all "fake"
Different sectors, areas within sectors, insides of stations, etc
In TC you needed time acceloration just to get from one spot to another. Not because it needed a lot of room, because it had a lot of empty space and your ship was as slow as a snail.
I have heard people complaining that shipyards wont build capitol ships because of lack of recources. Also, I hink you may have made a spelling error, making that hard to understand.
Bug- Patchable
So..?
Not mine, I think this problem varies from person to person.
Not always, some need to be because of a bug that the devs say they are patching.
I think you need a special person who can be found at a shipyard to repair other ships.
Patchable bug
Not necessarily a problem

[nobrien]

Wow ferret leader, you need to hit up the egosoft rebirth mod forums, they give great insight to the state of this game, just reading the posts about mods to fix tradeing alone should open your eyes to the true extent of the half game this is.

Its no wonder they kept the game inhouse untill release, they were fully aware of how smart their modding fanbase are and if they tryed to open beta test noone would have bought the game, the sad thing is if ego had come clean i belive many of us still would have pre-ordered, but its obvious that ego lied to us and misslead us.

Edit: i have stood behind egosoft for over a decade and bought everything X related and put up with bugs ect but thats because they were straight up about it, thats why they had our trust, this is the first time they have blatantly decieved us :{

[illidian]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ferret Leader:

Oprindeligt skrevet af kingaires:

Trade ships don't trade
There is no UI for fleet command
You can't see crew skills
You have to talk to NPCs in person
There is only 4 weapons for your ONE ship
Player ships won't defend themselves or attack anything
There is actually no trade between stations, clutter ships are fake
There is nothing to explore outside the immediate areas around stations
The game is at best half the size of Terran Conflict with 1/10th station count
Shipyards produce ships from thin air, they get no job other than a Die order
Shipyards produce these ships even if the shipyard is gone
There is one station in one sector that produces a material needed for all other stations
Saved games are being corrupted
Saved games need to be modified
Ships won't repair
Ships won't follow orders
There are 100 items that have no effect on the game and are part of a fiat trade system, that the AI doesn't participate in.

And that is just want I can think of off the top of my head... no tell us how awesome the game is and try and spin a 2005 X3 release in your favor again...

Answered in order...

Confirmed bug- patchable
Easily fixable with a patch
You can. You can't see it for new hires (most of the time) explained in the plot- Can't trust peopel when they talk about their own qualifications.
Is that such a bad thing? Really?
Upgrades
Erm... You expect the ship you are flying to defend itsself for you?
I've never seen anyone actually prove this. There are "fake" ships, but I'm not sure if they are all "fake"
Different sectors, areas within sectors, insides of stations, etc
In TC you needed time acceloration just to get from one spot to another. Not because it needed a lot of room, because it had a lot of empty space and your ship was as slow as a snail.
I have heard people complaining that shipyards wont build capitol ships because of lack of recources. Also, I hink you may have made a spelling error, making that hard to understand.
Bug- Patchable
So..?
Not mine, I think this problem varies from person to person.
Not always, some need to be because of a bug that the devs say they are patching.
I think you need a special person who can be found at a shipyard to repair other ships.
Patchable bug
Not necessarily a problem

patch patch patch patch patch, wtf is this, beta?