Make Shivs Great again

[Anderson]

Been playing the Silent, and having a good time, but it feels like the Sly/discard archtype dominates. Shivs hardly seem worth it now that that GOAT Blade Dance exhausts.

I would suggest 2 changes - Make Blade Dance not exhaust, and make Hidden Daggers a common card, to give a second reliable common that generates some daggers.

[Tsuru]

Knife trap is OP. I'd rather exhaust my blade dance so I can draw my other cards and use knife trap more often.

[Sintonir]

Shivs are stronger than ever with Fan of Knives and Knife Trap.
If you want a common to generate them repeatedly, you can take Cloak and Dagger.

[Tsuru]

Knife trap into finisher. Mmm mmm

[Bryggel]

Calculated gamble, Blade of Ink, Storm of Steel, Knife trap

[Missingno. #BuffDoormakerAgain]

The only 'problem' with Shivs right now is that Sly is so broken it overshadows everything else Silent can do. But Shivs themselves are fine, once Sly gets its kneecaps broken they'll be very worth using.

If anything, I think Knife Trap needs a nerf. It really ought to exhaust.

[Rosinante]

they need to change blade dance back, else there is no way it competes with discard build it´s just better in every way.

[Ellis_Cake]

just do blade dance AND other shivvies, perk them up.
get plus str and a finisher to really stick it in good! ^^

[phantom]

It baffles me people are complaining about Silence when she is the strongest character.

Shivs are immensely strong right now. Blade dance exhausts? who cares when none of the other sources of shiv including the defensive card were nerfed.

[Seethi]

Since cards like Fan of Knives and Up My Sleeve are available I don't think there is a reason for Blade Dance to exist at all. In the current form it should be removed entirely.

[deeper-thought]

Originally posted by Sintonir:

Shivs are stronger than ever with Fan of Knives and Knife Trap.
If you want a common to generate them repeatedly, you can take Cloak and Dagger.

So one way to look at the issue is that blade dance is too weak now compared with other shiv cards. Upgraded cloak and dagger gives you block plus 2 shivs and doesn't exaust, whereas upgrade blade dance gives 4 and does exhaust. Might as well just remove blade dance from the game at this point.

So that's my take away here, not that shiv builds are bad, but that blade dance was nerfed to the point of uselessness -- it either needs to be improved a bit to make it closer to the original or removed. If it's gonna exhaust, I would be in favor it it costing 0 energy.

[phantom]

Originally posted by deeper-thought:

Originally posted by Sintonir:

Shivs are stronger than ever with Fan of Knives and Knife Trap.
If you want a common to generate them repeatedly, you can take Cloak and Dagger.

So one way to look at the issue is that blade dance is too weak now compared with other shiv cards. Upgraded cloak and dagger gives you block plus 2 shivs and doesn't exaust, whereas upgrade blade dance gives 4 and does exhaust. Might as well just remove blade dance from the game at this point.

So that's my take away here, not that shiv builds are bad, but that blade dance was nerfed to the point of uselessness -- it either needs to be improved a bit to make it closer to the original or removed. If it's gonna exhaust, I would be in favor it it costing 0 energy.

Blade Dance exhausting just means it is not worth a campfire. It exhausting does not make it weak.

It exhausting is zero opportunity cost. Because it just means you draw something else when your deck cycles again.

[deeper-thought]

Originally posted by phantom:

Originally posted by deeper-thought:

So one way to look at the issue is that blade dance is too weak now compared with other shiv cards. Upgraded cloak and dagger gives you block plus 2 shivs and doesn't exaust, whereas upgrade blade dance gives 4 and does exhaust. Might as well just remove blade dance from the game at this point.

So that's my take away here, not that shiv builds are bad, but that blade dance was nerfed to the point of uselessness -- it either needs to be improved a bit to make it closer to the original or removed. If it's gonna exhaust, I would be in favor it it costing 0 energy.

Blade Dance exhausting just means it is not worth a campfire. It exhausting does not make it weak.

It exhausting is zero opportunity cost. Because it just means you draw something else when your deck cycles again.

you make good points but it's still a much weaker card than it used to be and usually not worth it

The opportunity cost still comes in when you take the card in the first place -- not a great idea to take the card as a source of shivs, since that source is gone the first time you use it in a combat. Just make it cost 0 energy if it's going to exhaust, then it's more comparable to some other cards in value.

Another way to look at it is this: A card exhausting is good only because you would rather have other cards come up. If you would rather have other cards come up, that means the card that is exhausting isn't that good -- again, if the card was really good compared with your other cards you would rather have it be drawable again.

[Timbermaw]

If blade dance doesn't exhaust there's no point to Leading Strike (which no one uses already) or Up My Sleeve (which also no one uses). That's probably the whole reason it exhausts.
They can't just buff blade dance to not exhaust when these two cards exist.

And removing those two bad cards would make silent even stronger.

[mudcrab]

shivs are far better in 2 than 1; super viable.

[Sir Waddles D. Waddlesworth III]

Shivs feel fine but I do agree that sly/discard overshadows everything else right now.

Also agreed that the only time Blade Dance has felt impactful to me was the time I found the modifier that removed exhaust from it.