How are they not getting sued to hell and back for this game?

[PropagandaWarMachine]

I stumbled upon this today after seeing a game that I love to play on You Tube. Question is how is this company not getting the crap sued out of them? There is literally over a million dollars worth of games in the workshop. Oh yeah and I plan on buying it tomorrow and telling all my buddies about it.

[Marquise*]

Same reason DVDR manufacturers don't get sued by movie industry.

[TRIBALien]

Originally posted by PropagandaWarMachine:

Oh yeah and I plan on buying it tomorrow and telling all my buddies about it.

I'm not sure what's special about tomorrow (whether you need to get funds together or...) but there's a 50% off sale on the individual and 4-packs at BundleStars. Although that sale's only still good for the next 3 and a half hours.

[PropagandaWarMachine]

Originally posted by TRIBALien:

Originally posted by PropagandaWarMachine:

Oh yeah and I plan on buying it tomorrow and telling all my buddies about it.

I'm not sure what's special about tomorrow (whether you need to get funds together or...) but there's a 50% off sale on the individual and 4-packs at BundleStars. Although that sale's only still good for the next 3 and a half hours.

I just get paid ;)

[TRIBALien]

Gotcha. I figured it was something like that.

[Corrodias]

Like they said, TTS is just a framework. It doesn't contain any problematic content. What people put on the workshop is between them, Valve, and content owners.

[Bojan]

Stop spreading your propaganda, PropagandaWarMachine, lol.

[Tricks]

They claim they aren't liable for what people put in the workshop. That being said, no one is policing it and the fact remains that if, hypothetically, a group of publishers went after them I have a feeling things could go bad. I don't think the game itself would go down... but I can't help but feel like there would be consequences.

Because while mods distributed for free by fans are generally not a major concern of publishers, the fact remains that the sales of TTS would probably only be a tenth of what they are without those mods. And TTS knows it, which is why they don't even like to talk about it, they just turn a blind eye and say it has nothing to do with them.

But to claiming zero liability when they have a lot to gain from those mods being available... well... I think that alone is enough to give any serious lawsuit some ammunition. If someone cared enough to push it.

Personally I wish people would at least come up with their own art assets and names even if they were going to copy everything else about a game, then there would be no issue whatsoever since you can't copyright a game concept. But the fact is that using an already established name gets you more attention and more downloads.

Hopefully one day we'll see more original games on the workshop than copyright infringing ones, then TTS will be free of the dark clouds that will forever follow it as long as the workshop is making it a potential target for a lawsuit. Because even if they claim no liability, it can't be denied that anyone suing has at least some ground to stand on.

[Rondo (pencil)]

My thoughts: TTS gives people the tools to make whatever they make. TTS implemented support for image hosting from other websites (likely so they can't be seud). Games uploaded which are prohibited by the publisher and/or developer will be taken down, such as Munchkin.

In other words, no one can blame TTS for giving players the tools to making a copyrighted game. I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure Berserk Games made sure to keep everything off their own servers so they can't be seud.

As another example, you can't sue Unity if someone would make a direct copy of another game. Unity just supplies the tools and nothing of the copied game is on their servers, so they can't be harmed.

[Corrodias]

Oh, you can file a lawsuit over pretty much anything. That doesn't mean you'll win, and I'm quite confident Berserk is in the clear. Note that I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

They've never encouraged users to break the law. It's just a tempting thing to do due to the nature of their product, and that has precedent as being insufficient to infringe on its own if there is a substantial, non-infringing use for the product (see: video recorders) which TTS definitely qualifies for.

Valve controls the workshop, has never encouraged users to break the law, and responds promptly to DMCA requests, so they qualify for safe harbor.

Media executives are always pressuring the likes of YouTube to moderate uploads actively and to give them more power over uploads, but the fact of the matter is that they simply don't have to. It's just a question of scale, since having a person handle a DMCA notice and remove a mod takes a bit of their time.

[PropagandaWarMachine]

I have a very limited Gaming Comm where I live. However I have a large TeamSpeak Gaming crew. So I am very excited that I can play some games like X-Wing and Decent with them. others will love the fact that they can warhammer the hell out of each other and WarMachine if that's available.

[ZenMonkey]

Originally posted by Tricks:

They claim they aren't liable for what people put in the workshop. That being said, no one is policing it and the fact remains that if, hypothetically, a group of publishers went after them I have a feeling things could go bad. I don't think the game itself would go down... but I can't help but feel like there would be consequences.

Because while mods distributed for free by fans are generally not a major concern of publishers, the fact remains that the sales of TTS would probably only be a tenth of what they are without those mods. And TTS knows it, which is why they don't even like to talk about it, they just turn a blind eye and say it has nothing to do with them.

But to claiming zero liability when they have a lot to gain from those mods being available... well... I think that alone is enough to give any serious lawsuit some ammunition. If someone cared enough to push it.

Personally I wish people would at least come up with their own art assets and names even if they were going to copy everything else about a game, then there would be no issue whatsoever since you can't copyright a game concept. But the fact is that using an already established name gets you more attention and more downloads.

Hopefully one day we'll see more original games on the workshop than copyright infringing ones, then TTS will be free of the dark clouds that will forever follow it as long as the workshop is making it a potential target for a lawsuit. Because even if they claim no liability, it can't be denied that anyone suing has at least some ground to stand on.

It can't go bad for them, it's not illegal to sale emulation software. Emu software is just the tool.

[Tricks]

Originally posted by Kaijudo:

It can't go bad for them, it's not illegal to sale emulation software. Emu software is just the tool.

I'm not saying for them. I'm saying something bad might happen as a result. For example, Valve could remove workshop support for the game if over 50% of the workshop uploads are copyright infringement. There's nothing saying they have to allow workshop mods.

Never say "they can't do anything about it." That's a blatant lie and completely naive. There have been many filesharing sites that have been taken down in recent years despite the fact that many of them didn't actually host any illegal content themselves. But the reality was that everyone knew that was the only thing people used them for.

And if TTS stepped on enough people's toes, they could demand that mod support be removed if people can't be responsible with mod creation. Not saying it would actually happen but let's face it, their argument would have merit as it stands. The workshop is by majority used distribute copyrighted content without permission.

[alanrwebster]

Half price on GOG! Also i put up a similar post a few days ago and it just got taken down guess steam don't like post about potential illigal acts.

[TRIBALien]

Originally posted by alanrwebster:

Half price on GOG! Also i put up a similar post a few days ago and it just got taken down guess steam don't like post about potential illigal acts.

You mean the two posts that are still in the similar thread that you began. Yeah, CENSORSHIP! ...Or maybe it just fell down to the fourth unpinned thread in the discussions.

[PropagandaWarMachine]

Honestly I asked for a refund. It just felt wrong. Which is weird because I love mods. But full games I guess just isn't cool. Minis, dice, props and all that is, but Full on games like X-Wing, Battle Lore, Dead of Winter, Summoner Wars ,Mage Knight naw. Couldn't bring myself to keep it, those guys are rare and few and I know they aren't wrackin up the dough.