Feature request: Zoom on mouse cursor

[killer_hamster]

A feature I would dearly like to see in TTS.

The idea here is that the 'focus point' for the zoom becomes the mouse cursor rather than the center of the screen.

As you push up/pull down the scroll-wheel, the game gradually zooms in/out --homing the camera in on the mouse cursor. This allows the user to fluidly and precisely zoom in and out on a specific object or area on the table. Essentially, this combines the zoom and pan controls into a single input.

Edit3: The main advantage to 'zoom on cursor' is that you can quickly jump from point to point in space quite precisely and in one fluid action. It's hard to explain how useful this is but anyone who has played Supreme Commander or Crusader Kings will understand how this control style works.

This demo shows the principal in action: http://phrogz.net/tmp/canvas_zoom_to_cursor.html

Note: I am aware of the 'z' / 'middle mouse' zoom feature. But that does not have the functionallity I am describing. Edit 2: The Z button snap zooms to a pre-definded zoom level, it does not allow you to gradually 'push in' on a specific area.

Link to suggestion thread on Beserk's forum: http://www.berserk-games.com/forums/showthread.php?1391-v5-8-Strategic-Zoom

Edit: I've reworded this post for clarity. I think I did a bad job explaining myself.

[TRIBALien]

Why do you find pressing 'z' "fiddly and unintuitive"? Using the space bar to get an overview of the table and Z to zoom in provides the functionality that you seem to want. In fact, the default alternative to the 'Z' key's Zoom Toggle is clicking the middle mouse button. Click the middle mouse button to zoom in on the cursor and use to scroll wheel to zoom in more if needed. Also, since you're enamored with the middle mouse button, try pressing the middle mouse button down while moving the mouse ... panning with no 'w/a/s/d' required.

[killer_hamster]

You don't think having the zoom home in on the mouse cursor would be useful (at least as an option)?

I may have given the wrong impression. My post may have come off as an attack on the games current controls. I didn't mean it that way. My only motivation is that I have played games in the past that use the 'zoom on cursor' style of control I mentioned, and I found it to be quite handy and would love to see it implemented here.

I am aware of the control features you mention, and I do use them. But, they don't provide the style of control that I am talking about. Back in the day I used to play RTS games, and as such I am very familiar with the standard zoom+pan+click controls that most games of that type (and TTS) use. I just assumed thats how games worked. Then I played Supreme Commander, a game that uses the 'zoom on cursor' style. And my eyes were opened, so to speak. It was a vastly superior control method and I wished that every game (with a top down camera) used it.

[Enigmabrand]

I believe if you click in your middle mouse button (the scroll wheel) it will perform the same action as pressing 'Z'. Maybe that would be helpful to you.

[havocx42]

+1
I'd love to see this feature. Ever since playing SupCom I've thought that every game that has zoom on the scrollwheel should do this.

[ZenMonkey]

Click the middle mouse button.

[Mora]

Yeah, I agree that this would be a very nice option to have (the current Z/Click middle mouse button functionality is not the same thing as the OP is asking for).

[killer_hamster]

Thanks. I am realising that explaining this feature to people who have not already seen it in action is a problem.

[TRIBALien]

Actually, the problem that you have is articulating why you believe it's better and/or why the current alternative is unacceptable. I've played both of the examples that you gave (Crusader Kings [the sequel actually] and Supreme Commander) and can't stand the control schema. I find constantly flicking the scrollwheel to be a horribly inefficient waste of time and energy when one keypress accomplishes the same thing as four revolutions of the wheel. Using the cursor to control the camera panning was originally mentioned in your post; however, camera positioning is more affected by the auto-scroll at the screen's edges than the zooming in/out at the cursor's location.

The worst part is that like many games in the RTS genre, a mouse is required to control the game adequately. 95% of the time, I use my laptop's trackpad and don't bother with a mouse. As a result, I can still play TTS but not those games that you want to turn it into. Giving a blanket statement that you are unwilling/unable to use the current control methods for ... reasons? ... and editing your original post after the fact does not indicate that others are unable to understand you.

[killer_hamster]

Thanks for explaining your point of view. Fair enough. This is not a feature for you. Controls are a pretty subjective thing. I find having granular control over the zoom and using zoom to control camera positioning (a la SupCom) to be powerful and enjoyable. You clearly do not. And yes, I can see that when playing with a track-pad this would not really be helpful (though I could not imagine playing such games with a track pad, but that's a seperate issue).

I would only suggest this is a option. The current zooom should remain (probably as default).

I am not unwilling/unable to do anything. That was why I edited my post (which I was bad etiquette I admit), I gave the impression that the existing controls were inadequate. They work well enough, I just see this tweak as an improvement.

[TRIBALien]

Originally posted by killer_hamster:

I am not unwilling/unable to do anything. That was why I edited my post (which I was bad etiquette I admit), I gave the impression that the existing controls were inadequate. They work well enough, I just see this tweak as an improvement.

In your original original post, you described using the 'Z' key as "fiddly" and "unintuitive". That's why the very first thing that I asked was

Originally posted by TRIBALien:

Why do you find pressing 'z' "fiddly and unintuitive"?

(A question that has still gone unanswered, BTW.) Those are very specific terms, so you were sooooo close to actually saying something substantive...and then you removed all of that for nuggets like:

Originally posted by killer_hamster:

Essentially, this combines the zoom and pan controls into a single input. It's hard to explain how useful this is but anyone who has played Supreme Commander or Crusader Kings will understand how this control style works.

If you're really editing for clarity then I can understand; but, if your clarification is, in effect, I can't really explain it ... then you've got a problem. Likewise, you aren't really explaining why by just saying that the current method:

Originally posted by killer_hamster:

does not have the functionallity I am describing

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was upset or wanted to be argumentative. I was actually just going to ignore this thread after you read my original post as...

Originally posted by killer_hamster:

You don't think having the zoom home in on the mouse cursor would be useful (at least as an option)?

Assuming others are unwilling or unable to understand something that you yourself admit is hard for you to explain is not something that I felt comfortable letting go, however.

[killer_hamster]

Originally posted by killer_hamster:

You don't think having the zoom home in on the mouse cursor would be useful (at least as an option)?

This wasn't a rhetorical question, I was genuinely interested in a response. I do have specific issues with the 'Z' zoom. But I realised that disecting the problems with that feature would massivley side-track this thread into a discussion about a feature that I really don't care about and that I consider to be only tangentially related to the feature I am requesting. I thought that my updated description of 'zoom on cursor' made that more clear. I will expand on the differences.

'Zoom on cursor' allows you to smoothly and gradually 'push in' your camera view on the area surrounding the cursor (the camera 'homes in on the cursor'). You can 'zero in' to the zoom level you want. It's close to being an analog control; you can increase or decrease the speed as you go so as to hit the exact level you want and you end up with the camera positioned exacty where you want it.

Contrast this wth the 'z' zoom; you hit z and game snap zooms into the area to an (initially) predefined zoom level. If your cursor position was a little off, you have to re-adjust the camera with a different input (wasd/middle-mouse). Then you have to adjust the zoom level as required using yet another input (scroll-wheel). Then you hit 'z' again, you end up back at another camera and zoom state which you will have to readjust. This feature is usuable and I'm glad that you find it useful. However, I hope you can see that is different from 'zoom on cursor'.

The main advantage to 'zoom on cursor' is that you can quickly jump from point to point in space quite precisely and in one fluid action. To me atleast, it feels almost analogous moving your head in and out, from point to point. Have you tried out that demo I linked to. I think it illustrates this idea. Though, this control style only really works with a mouse and scroll wheel not with a track-pad.

As to your point about my clarification being unclear; I suppose threw in that thing about it being 'hard to explain' to avoid being overly didactic and maybe to invite others who had used the feature to chime in. It's not like that's all I wrote; the few lines above do cover the feature and why I like it, though maybe not in enough detail. I was trying to curb my instinct for verbosity (unlike with this post) and be concise, I obviously didn't succeed.

I edited the OP a little to emphasize why 'z' zoom is not the same thing as 'zoom on cursor'.

[TRIBALien]

Yeah, I understand wanting to have finer control over how much you zoom in. One of the first configuration changes that I ever did was bind the secondary options for zoom in/out to 'I' and 'O' for the same (and yet, simultaneously, opposite) reason. TTS is good about having options for both keyboard and mouse users, but as a result you can always find better examples for both.

The main thing that I didn't understand was why the zoom toggle was not an acceptable compromise. But, like you said, this is all a highly subjective area. Anyway, sorry for monopolizing your thread so much.

P.S.
You did intend this thread to start discussion among the other forum members and not as a feature request per se, right? (I ask just because the devs generally ignore feature requests in the Steam forums.)

[killer_hamster]

No worries. Thanks for the interest.

Both really. I linked to this thread from the Beserk Games forum (somebody had already posted the request).

http://www.berserk-games.com/forums/showthread.php?1391-v5-8-Strategic-Zoom