Munchkin...what's up?

[BossGalaga]

So Munchkin appears to be a very popular mod for TTS...and also very banned. Okay, I get the rights holder have issues and Steve wants to get paid but what's up with Munchkin coming to your computer box game machine sometime before I die of old age?

Years ago they announced Munchkin for the 360. Then canceled it. And obviously...a little behind the power curve.

So if they're gonna slam DMCAs on Munchkin mods for TTS, the least they could do is make some sort of announcement about a digital release. Has anyone heard anything other than hushed whispers in dark alleys about an actual digital version? Am I in the dark on this or are we just chasing ghosts?

[Persona]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Munchkin/comments/38ux2c/tabletop_simulator_has_paid_dlc_support_now_would/

[BossGalaga]

Originally posted by Persona:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Munchkin/comments/38ux2c/tabletop_simulator_has_paid_dlc_support_now_would/

Well, here is what mods have said on the SJG forums when numerous people have inquired about why this game isn't available digitally or what the big deal is with TTS.

"Our policy has been consistent and clear: people who want to create digital versions of our games must obtain a license to do so. I'm sorry that you feel this is disrespectful to our fans and customers. We feel exactly as disrespected by people who use our content without our permission." -Andrew Hackard, Munchkin Line Editor (means he's a copy editor)

Oh, okay if you want to create a digital version of Munchkin then you just need to obtain a license. Cool.

Oh wait, they won't allow it to be licensed. Hmmmm...contradiction.

Speaking of contradictions...here's another one.

In response to another question about why Munchkin isn't available digitally Hackard weighed in again...with a complete 180.

"We have stated for several years now that it is a long-term goal to be active in digital development, but we aren't going to do it fast at the expense of doing it right. And because it's our game, we get to decide what "doing it right" means. Beyond that, I'm not going to comment. SJ Games doesn't discuss internal business matters in public forums." -Andrew Hackard

Just to reiterate that same guy already said you just need to "obtain a license?" But they're not going to give them out.

These numerous contradictory statements and the fact that not only will they not discuss it but appear to harbor some sort of hatred to the subject of digital distribution massively confuses me.

Fans aren't asking for it to be free. There are people with their hands in their wallet practically begging and pleading for this.

[Rakah]

could always get people using a distributed file system, can't DMCA that

[Gorgo Primus]

How is it a contradiction that you can't use their game without their permission, and they don't want to give that permission to anyone who has asked for it so far? You can't use my car without my permission (or its theft) and I'm also not going to give it to you because you're a random internet person. That isn't a contradiction, it is a choice.

Just relax and take some comfort that at least it isn't like a *good* game is being withheld from you on the internet.

[BossGalaga]

Originally posted by Gorgo Primus:

How is it a contradiction that you can't use their game without their permission, and they don't want to give that permission to anyone who has asked for it so far? You can't use my car without my permission (or its theft) and I'm also not going to give it to you because you're a random internet person. That isn't a contradiction, it is a choice.

Just relax and take some comfort that at least it isn't like a *good* game is being withheld from you on the internet.

If you read my comment, it's obviously a contradiction because they said that their policy has always been clear and if anyone who wants to create digital versions of munchkin just need to license it. Then they say they're restricting their licensing and they're not going to comment on their policies. You know, the "clear" ones. Oh and they feel disrespected by their fans.

[Dread Arkive]

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

Originally posted by Gorgo Primus:

How is it a contradiction that you can't use their game without their permission, and they don't want to give that permission to anyone who has asked for it so far? You can't use my car without my permission (or its theft) and I'm also not going to give it to you because you're a random internet person. That isn't a contradiction, it is a choice.

Just relax and take some comfort that at least it isn't like a *good* game is being withheld from you on the internet.

If you read my comment, it's obviously a contradiction because they said that their policy has always been clear and if anyone who wants to create digital versions of munchkin just need to license it. Then they say they're restricting their licensing and they're not going to comment on their policies. You know, the "clear" ones. Oh and they feel disrespected by their fans.

They aren't contradicting anything. They are just using a twisted way of saying "No...we aren't going to allow anyone but ourselves to make a digital version, since we don't intend to grant licences."

[Mountain King]

Originally posted by Dread Arkive:

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

If you read my comment, it's obviously a contradiction because they said that their policy has always been clear and if anyone who wants to create digital versions of munchkin just need to license it. Then they say they're restricting their licensing and they're not going to comment on their policies. You know, the "clear" ones. Oh and they feel disrespected by their fans.

They aren't contradicting anything. They are just using a twisted way of saying "No...we aren't going to allow anyone but ourselves to make a digital version, since we don't intend to grant licences."

No, they actually continually contradict themselves. Check that reddit thread, and the email exchange within it. Someone emailed to ask why there is no digital version and they said that looking for a way to get it out digitally was taking up too much time and effort (despite TTS devs explaining that its literally just a few image files they need) and then they said that "someday an experienced publisher will come to them holding lots of money."

So yeah, they don't really care about releasing it digitally unless it means getting a massive payday from a big developer and having to do none of the work. I'm fine with them protecting their IP and going through the required formalities of DMCA'ing Workshop mods, but I'm also not going to feel bad about playing with my own custom decks. Can't be losing money on something you refuse to monetize.

[MasterionX]

Originally posted by Gorgo Primus:

You can't use my car without my permission (or its theft) and I'm also not going to give it to you because you're a random internet person.

If I bought a car from you, do I need a permission to do with it what I want?

I've already bought a board game, I don't need permission to do what I want with it.

[Baryonyx]

Originally posted by MasterionX:

If I bought a car from you, do I need a permission to do with it what I want?

I've already bought a board game, I don't need permission to do what I want with it. :cozyprodman:

Well, to stay in the car comparsion, what uploading your munchkin mod to the workshop would be in that case is making copies of the car that you bought and giving them away for free to everyone who asks. I'm sure the car manufacturer wouldn't like that because you'd deprive them of business.

But hey, nobody can stop you from sharing the game online with people privately, you just can't publish it on the workshop. Sure, sounds silly, but those are the rules right now.

[MasterionX]

Originally posted by Baryonyx:

Well, to stay in the car comparsion, what uploading your munchkin mod to the workshop would be in that case is making copies of the car that you bought and giving them away for free to everyone who asks. I'm sure the car manufacturer wouldn't like that because you'd deprive them of business.

TBH that's like saying that Forza Horizon and Need for Speed deprive car manufacturers of business. Sure, you can turn the wheel but it's just not the same thing, you'll still want to get the real deal (especially now that you've got a taste).

[Baryonyx]

I can see your logic here, but I suppose this is where the car - game comparison breaks. Because even though the game might be great, how many times does the average person play? Probably not more than once a week. Do you really need a physical copy for that? How big is the percentage of people that have tried the free digital copy and buy the physical one because of that versus if there would be no free copy and everyone that wanted to play had to buy the game (at lease one copy per group)? I assume it is not enough, from SJGs perspective at least. Is the difference between a digital version and a physical version big enough? In my opinion it is not, but you might disagree and that's fine. And what if you met people from the other side of the world through trying out the game online, now you can't have them fly over every weekend to play physically with them. So you need to keep the digital version.

So again, sharing the mod privately is fine, making it public is not.