1,000 hour achievement is ridiculous

[Whiskey Tang go]

Don't get me wrong. I love TTS and the endless possibilities of fun it offers, but let's be real... No achievement for any game in the world should require 1,000 hours of play time, or 42 days of your life to achieve. It's just a dumb dirty trick by the devs to force achievement hunters to keep coming back.

Are achievements pointless? Yes
Does anyone really care? Not really
Is it ridiculous to require 1,000 hours / 42 days to unlock one achievement? Yup

Not even looking for feedback on this. Just voicing my opinion that no achievement should require 42 days worth of play time.

Have fun!

(Still love TTS, but c'mon...)

[One Sun Mirror]

So you're saying you want it to be easier to unlock all the achievements in the game? And not reward people who have arrived at some distant and difficult-to-reach point and, dare I say, 'achieved' something?

[Zake]

Originally posted by One Sun Mirror:

So you're saying you want it to be easier to unlock all the achievements in the game? And not reward people who have arrived at some distant and difficult-to-reach point and, dare I say, 'achieved' something?

Pretty sure having the application open for 1000 hours is not a difficult-to-reach point, just a time consuming one.

I think the issue is that the 'achievement' is literally just time based, there is nothing the player need to beyond launching the application and having it open. It is a bit of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ achievement.

That isn't to say you can't be proud of how much time you have spent on a game, no, if you truly do like the game and feel the time was well spent, go right ahead. Heck, it is good if you can find something you enjoy that you come back to.

I say the problem is that this achievement, even on a game that is good and could potentially have you play for a thousand hours normally, is still flawed due to not really being involving any action. Nothing differentiates a player who just had it open for 1000 hours vs one who actually played the game.

I feel this ends up devaluing the player who actually did play, but this is a bit irrelevent.

The point I'm trying to make is: if you play a game for 1000 hours, surely you've done a lot and 'learnt' the game (for Tabletop it is more in regards to finding your favourite 'games' along with learning the system), and as such you can probably do something else beyond just time spent...

But what? In this type of game your 'progress' is very much the experience of the simulated games, and the achievements cannot be based on that, as different people will play different things. So the achievements that steam offers need to be relatively universal, something everyone has access to.

As such I can forgive the game for the 1000 hour achievement, but I don't think it is a well designed achievement, however it seems to be one that can easily be applied to a more sandbox style game such as this.

"Bad Game Design - Clicker Games" by Snoman Gaming on YouTube talks about clicker games, but there is plenty of mention of how 'time' is the main game element, along with the watching numbers rise so numbers can rise thing.

I mention this because this idea of time as a game mechanic can apply here as well, since the 1000 hour achievement is very similar in nature, you just wait to get it. This can still feel rewarding, but is it really?


TL;DR
I write an essay that probably has lots of mistakes.

P.S. Guess I didn't like your tone One Sun Mirror, since it felt to me like you were belittling OP's points and making it sound like they are against people achieving things, which isn't how I read their complaints.
Maybe it is more accurate to say it felt like you were miscategorising their points, which irked me since it doesn't seem productive in a discussion, especially since they didn't say they want achievements to be easier to get, just that 1000 hour achievement (which is literally just 'open application' time) is ridiculous.

Granted, OP could've probably try to explain why they feel it is ridiculous, since yes, it takes a long time to get, but why is that an issue? I tried to give my thoughts on that, but the point in your post of 'actually achieving something is good' is obviously valid, but I don't think that was something the OP is against, more that they want better achievements.

TL;DR 2
I write a little more cause why not. I miss spellcheck btw.

[YourPeepingTom]

so you're pissed because its gonna take you a lotta time to get that achievement or somethin? all you have to do is play the game. "just a dumb dirty trick by the devs to force achievement hunters to keep coming back." lol okay, dont be a dumb dirty achievement hunter then.

[Valentine]

Go see Garry's mod achievements and come back saying how much of regret you feel.

[Valentine]

let's all laugh at him, althought i dont have that ♥♥♥♥ too =(

[Spinny]

I'm at 658 hours... getting there.
I don't really do achievement hunting though.

[SaltyO]

receiving the 1,000 achievement was one of the greatest things that has ever happened to me. The applebees coupon was well worth the hours put in. I enjoyed every bite. Thank you berserk.

[Super_]

Tbh if you’re going to 100% board games, you’re gonna spend 1000 hours playing them

[YourPeepingTom]

yall are great, can you imagine though attempting to even just play all the games on tabletop sim? that would take so long, just one game each

[One Sun Mirror]

Originally posted by Zero118:

Pretty sure having the application open for 1000 hours is not a difficult-to-reach point, just a time consuming one.

Sure. If your sole goal playing this game is to get the achievements and not to partake in what is effectively a simulator and forum for playing board games with others, then I suppose "having the application open for 1000 hours is... just a time consuming" achievement. No arguments there. But in doing things this way, I would say you're missing the point of Tabletop Simulator.

Originally posted by Zero118:

I think the issue is that the 'achievement' is literally just time based, there is nothing the player need to beyond launching the application and having it open. It is a bit of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ achievement.

That isn't to say you can't be proud of how much time you have spent on a game, no, if you truly do like the game and feel the time was well spent, go right ahead. Heck, it is good if you can find something you enjoy that you come back to.

I say the problem is that this achievement, even on a game that is good and could potentially have you play for a thousand hours normally, is still flawed due to not really being involving any action. Nothing differentiates a player who just had it open for 1000 hours vs one who actually played the game.

I feel this ends up devaluing the player who actually did play, but this is a bit irrelevent.

It is time based, but I guess the implication is that you've spent that time playing the game. I believe the achievement actually requires you to be in a game server for 1000 hours, not just browsing the menus. I think to people who genuinely play Tabletop Simulator and enjoy their time there will feel that sense of achievement when they see the 1000 hours turn all colourful for them. But for someone who just sat there waiting for it? Of course it's going to feel hollow. This achievement is less about the listed requirement and more about gauging how long you've spent engaged in the community. If you are chasing arbitrary achievements as an end in itself and not really enjoying the game, don't play the game. It's not worth your time. Or find a game that hands out achievements in one playthrough. Or just hack the system and unlock every achievement, I believe this is theoretically possible to do if it matters so much to you that your achievements are all lit up.

However, I would like to reiterate that OP stated:

Originally posted by Whiskey Tang go:

Are achievements pointless? Yes

If they are to be believed, I am actually valuing achievements more than they are. But I suspect this is not the case.

Originally posted by Zero118:

The point I'm trying to make is: if you play a game for 1000 hours, surely you've done a lot and 'learnt' the game (for Tabletop it is more in regards to finding your favourite 'games' along with learning the system), and as such you can probably do something else beyond just time spent...

But what? In this type of game your 'progress' is very much the experience of the simulated games, and the achievements cannot be based on that, as different people will play different things. So the achievements that steam offers need to be relatively universal, something everyone has access to.

As such I can forgive the game for the 1000 hour achievement, but I don't think it is a well designed achievement, however it seems to be one that can easily be applied to a more sandbox style game such as this.

"Bad Game Design - Clicker Games" by Snoman Gaming on YouTube talks about clicker games, but there is plenty of mention of how 'time' is the main game element, along with the watching numbers rise so numbers can rise thing.

I mention this because this idea of time as a game mechanic can apply here as well, since the 1000 hour achievement is very similar in nature, you just wait to get it. This can still feel rewarding, but is it really?

As you no doubt expect, I disagree with you on this being an achievement about waiting. I actually think you hit the nail on the head when you say that the true measure should be your experiences playing the actual board games on here. While it's probably quite difficult to near impossible to have some kind of accurate measure for this, I think this is probably the easiest-to-implement proxy for this kind of thing.

As for Snoman Gaming, I actually saw that video recently! I think in this case, the conceptualisation of the achievement is not about the waiting, the implication is you are enjoying yourself. Of course, like Clickers, you can just leave it on, watching the numbers go up, but I think this is more to do with the nature of Tabletop Simulator. It is not a 'game' in itself, it is software to facilitate the playing of games. You could change the achievement to exclusively count time spent in only DLC games (excluding the vast majority of games that seem to be played on here which come from the community workshop), or in rooms with at least one other person (ruling out solo gaming and people crafting their own intricate RPG tables). These two ideas don't really work. So I think they broader 'spend 1000 hours in-game' is more widely achievable by a variety of players. I think it's a little disingenuous to compare Tabletop Simulator to a Clicker game. This is not a Skinner Box. There is no psychological trick to keep you here unless you feel that the achievement itself has entrapped you and you simply must sit there and wait for so long before you can possibly move on with you life. And if that is what achievements have become for you, it's not really up to Tabletop Simulator to work that out for you.

Originally posted by Zero118:

TL;DR
I write an essay that probably has lots of mistakes.

P.S. Guess I didn't like your tone One Sun Mirror, since it felt to me like you were belittling OP's points and making it sound like they are against people achieving things, which isn't how I read their complaints.
Maybe it is more accurate to say it felt like you were miscategorising their points, which irked me since it doesn't seem productive in a discussion, especially since they didn't say they want achievements to be easier to get, just that 1000 hour achievement (which is literally just 'open application' time) is ridiculous.

I think you characterised my point pretty well. I was rephrasing OP's point to reveal its ridiculousness. They say in the same piece of writing that achievements don't matter, right after complaining about how the devs are playing some kind of "dumb dirty trick". Taken at face value, sitting in the game for 1000 hours is a pretty ridiculous expectation. But I doubt anyone will honestly claim that that was the dev's intention in creating the thing, to have players sitting and wasting away as they wait for this achievement to fire.

As before, if you play games solely looking for achievements, this is not the game for you, not actually a game, etc.

Originally posted by Zero118:

Granted, OP could've probably try to explain why they feel it is ridiculous, since yes, it takes a long time to get, but why is that an issue? I tried to give my thoughts on that, but the point in your post of 'actually achieving something is good' is obviously valid, but I don't think that was something the OP is against, more that they want better achievements.

TL;DR 2
I write a little more cause why not. I miss spellcheck btw.

Actually achieving something is good, and rewarding people who have played for so long with a little something is by no means a bad thing. Taking it away just because someone feels like it's not fair that they have to "wait so long" to get it is really a non-argument. They don't reduce the time for life-memberships in various clubs just because newcomers can't get it quickly. It requires patience and commitment, and shouldn't be about the virtual medal you get at the end. I think Snoman's point about effectively meaningless achievements rings true. Make this achievement more easily attainable (especially by sitting and waiting) and it becomes effectively meaningless.

And just to be clear, the fact I'm disagreeing with you does not necessarily mean I don't respect what you have to say. I just felt what you'd said was interesting enough to me to address. Feel free to disagree. The important thing is that OP walks away still enjoying TTS, as they say they do.

[Fermia]

1500h here

[Marquise*]

Yeah! Time pass fast when you have fun ;)

[TheLimeyDragon]

4000 hours

[benrod]

Originally posted by Valentine:

Go see Garry's mod achievements and come back saying how much of regret you feel.

In the spirit of opposites I present The Stanley Parable's

"Go outside
Don't play The Stanley Parable for five years." achievement.

And yes I imagine quite a few got this.

[Valentine]

Originally posted by benrod:

Originally posted by Valentine:

Go see Garry's mod achievements and come back saying how much of regret you feel.

In the spirit of opposites I present The Stanley Parable's

"Go outside
Don't play The Stanley Parable for five years." achievement.

And yes I imagine quite a few got this.

Would you waste one year wasting energy rather than letting your game as unplayed for 5 years? xD.