Gizmo Tool

[Dalorath]

Hello all,

I was wondering why the host of a table cant grant gizmo tool access to other players... This kinda ruins the table design and layout design aspect of this game when it comes to multiple people working on a project such as a D&D map...

[Baryonyx]

Possible workaround for now: Let the others work on simpler things like laying out tiles and plants while the host does the gizmo work.

[Dalorath]

thats a good point, but I really hope they will address this issue.. I dont see why it isnt allowed...

[Sekkuar666]

A few things can only be accessed host side:

Scripting;
Gizmo;
Snap points;

Usually because those tools are only used when creating new content and not during gameplay.

Yes, sometimes, like your specific scenario it could make sense, but since it's something rarely necessary, it's probably not worth the effort it takes to include the option.

[Dalorath]

including the option shouldnt really be that big a deal to impliment... Without it, it severly limits group efforts on scenario building which in turn make it harder for groups to work together on projects. I don t really have anything else to say about it, i guess...

[Sekkuar666]

Originally posted by Dalorath:

including the option shouldnt really be that big a deal to impliment...

Really?
How long do you work with game development? Maybe you could implement it for them since it's so easy for you.

[Dalorath]

yes really, All they have to do is add in an option for the allowance of gizmo for other players. Its simply accessing the same file the host uses. It wouldnt take longer then an hour to impliment. the HUD and everything necessary is already implimented, they just need to create a option to transfer those same options to other players if the host allows it. It really wouldnt be that big a job since most of the work is already done.

[Sekkuar666]

Unbelievable.

How can people be so high up their horse that they can think themselves in position to say how long something will take to do while they don't have single theoretic or practical experience with whatever it is they are talking about?

Know what, you have good luck with that, I'm out.

[Dalorath]

Take your condescending ignorant attitude elsewhere, its not appreciated here. This is about implimenting the gizmo tool for more then host, Not about you and your half assed opinions of Superiority...

[Baryonyx]

Sekkuar is right in that you should not make assumptions about something being easy if you have never done anything comparable yourself. If it is as easy as you say, you might aswell go ahead and learn unity programming, then write the piece of code yourself and send it to the developers to implement into the game.

Dalorath is right in that implementing this mechanic should not be as hard in comparison to developing, implementing and testing a whole new feature. (such as player-tied line of sight mechanics for game pieces, ahem)
But then again we do not know how this part of the game was written, maybe it is tied to the host more than we expect it to be, so that it could cause lag issues for example.


Anyways, I wouldn't mind this being added as an option to the game permissions.

[Whiplash]

Originally posted by Sekkuar666:

Unbelievable.

How can people be so high up their horse that they can think themselves in position to say how long something will take to do while they don't have single theoretic or practical experience with whatever it is they are talking about?

Know what, you have good luck with that, I'm out.

You don't actually know what they do or do not know, or what experience they hold. You just want to dismiss them outright. It is a common theme all across gaming discussions. I've had people throw it at me when I definitely knew what I was talking about, and have experience to back it up. It's annoying and dismissive and rather fanboyish. As it's really nothing more than making excuses for the dev, when you don't actually know how easy or hard the feature is to implement either.

[Whiplash]

Originally posted by Baryonyx:

Sekkuar is right in that you should not make assumptions about something being easy if you have never done anything comparable yourself.

Bull. For one, you don't actually know what someone knows or does not know, or what experience they bring to it. You just assume. But secondly, it's a fallacious argument to begin with. One does not have to have direct experience in a field to offer suggestions or ideas. That is a complete logical fallacy. I don't have to be a chef to recommend that maybe I'd like my burger with certain toppings. I don't need to be a car mechanic or car maker in order to suggest that maybe leather seats would be a nice feature. It's not some kind of absolute. It depends on what is being suggested, and why.

The effort to dismiss people's opinions or criticisms based on their personal experience is a form of ad hominem. Discrediting someone personally in order to discredit their idea. Moving the disucssion away from the merits of the idea, to dismissing that entirely because you dismiss the person making the suggestion as being unqualified. When you don't actually know anything about them or what they know. And their experiences may not be relevant to the suggestion at all.

It is you guys that are being far too assumptive and thinking you know more than you do.

[Baryonyx]

@ Whiplash
True, the original post is a suggestion. However post #6 is not sounding like a suggestion anymore and I'm sure that is what infuriated Sekkuar.
I was trying to calm this discussion down and direct it back on topic.

[TRIBALien]

How long something takes to implement is largely irrelevant in comparison to HOW it should (or even, more importantly, WHY). That's why blanket statements complaining that "feature xyz that I want should be no problem to add" are so annoying. Feature creep is a big problem in designing a usable UI. Yes, adding a feature like this should be relatively easy; however, adding it in a way that doesn't clutter/confuse the menus anymore is more of an art than just adding lines of code.

Personally, I don't see why it needs to be there. Maybe your use case is too specialized... Maybe you haven't done an adequate job of explaining why this needs to be a general option that everyone actually needs... Or maybe I've just gotten too cynical, but when I first saw this suggestion my first thought is "Great! another way for people to troll games by lowering objects INTO the table". To me, it seems that the number of people that could deal with this possibily being abused would far outnumber the people that actually "need" this.

[TRIBALien]

Originally posted by Whiplash:

Bull. For one, you don't actually know what someone knows or does not know, or what experience they bring to it. You just assume.

While the specific knowledge/experience someone has might not be known, educated inferences based upon what they say can be made and statements like:

Originally posted by Dalorath:

It wouldnt take longer then an hour to impliment.

are specific enough to be judged on their own merits. So, knowing enough to be aware that you can't even compile the necessary changes in an hour is enough to judge someone's knowledge/ignorance on the matter.

Note: Even if he actually knew what he was talking about and decided to just use hyperbole to make a point (without saying so), then he still has no one to blame but himself for coming across as inexperienced on the matter.

[Baryonyx]

Originally posted by TRIBALien:

Personally, I don't see why it needs to be there. Maybe your use case is too specialized... Maybe you haven't done an adequate job of explaining why this needs to be a general option that everyone actually needs... Or maybe I've just gotten too cynical, but when I first saw this suggestion my first thought is "Great! another way for people to troll games by lowering objects INTO the table". To me, it seems that the number of people that could deal with this possibily being abused would far outnumber the people that actually "need" this.

In my mind this option would appear under the "Permissions" tab, as "Allow Gizmo for promoted players" so that a host can easily turn it off if its not needed. Since the list is quite long already, one more option doesn't really make it worse. (to my eyes that is)