Zealot Hockey (Starcraft 2)

[boneless1213]

Anyone here played Zealot Hockey? ACE and ZH are very similar games and I'd like to offer some comparisons and opinions in hopes of creating some constructive dialog. I hope this doesn't sound like an ACE bash I feel this game has more potential and depth than ZH while ZH has some great core mechanics that while not needing to be copied could be great reference.

Videos -
EU Open Highlights(Some great plays) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1l5UIUbXq4
Full Game w/ Commentary - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHlF-uBahYQ

http://www.zealothockey.net/

If you wish to try this game battle.net arcade is free you don't need to purchase starcraft 2 to play it.

I play in the US and there are lots of US players it's not just an EU thing.

Movement and Momentum - Movement is very much based on going a single direction builds up speed and changing direction lowers your momentum while I think I noticed this in ACE it seems more subtle and I feel like the momentum mechanic in ZH creates more opportunity for either well placed or poor positioning creating some interesting gameplay.

Shooting and Passing - The shooting and passing is based on a charge up mechanic in ZH and when the charge is initiated it stops movement(your momentum is still in effect moving you) and also stops direction changes and this adds a bit of variety by either having slower passes and shots on a dime or stronger passes and shots with good positioning and timing creating great "Snipe" opportunities as they are called. These snipes are some of the most rewarding moments in ZH and create some great gameplay.(And some great goalie save moments that are also very rewarding).

Charge(Check) - This ability allows you to charge/"speed boost" in a single direction giving you the ability to close distance in the case of a position mistake and also if you make contact with the puck it will automatically steal it. This is an ability that every player has and takes time and skill to develop proper use of it. Not only do you need to develop aim for this ability but also patience to not use it until the right time as it is your saving grace in the event of poor positioning.

Auto shots - In ZH is when you pass to another player and they do not hold the puck they simply shoot it straight as it comes to them. This can be used for complicated passing plays but is typically used in Hat Trick plays where someone passes to one who is open near the goal and shoots in the unprotected region of the goal because the goalie was currently blocking a shot from the player who had the puck.

Camera Orientation - I don't feel like I have much to moan about in ACE I love the game it has depth in areas that ZH does not have and variety and I feel will become a better game than ZH but I really do not like the Down the court view in ACE this is probably just a personal opinion but I really like the left/right view in ZH and think it could be a good option for players to choose from.

edit:
4v4 : ZH is 4v4 and This seems crucial because some of the best moments are when you have assisted goals. 4v4 makes it so there are more options for passing and also allow for complex multipass plays using auto-shots. There is some depth lost when play ZH 3v3 and it feels like ACE may have the same problem when I play matches.

I hope my comments came across correctly. I'm not suggesting you turn ACE in to ZH just I think many of the mechanics and abilities would be great for reference as you progress in development. I think soon enough I will be staying out of ZH altogether as ACE passes it up in every aspect in the future. Thank you for letting me play ACE for free in these stages of the game and I wish the best for you and the development.

[7-7]

Very nice! High level teams in ace also do the hat trick thing. It has been debated to add 4v4

[Tohu Meliakan]

Thank you for your feedback!

ACE is close to hockey, and so to Zealot Hockey, but it has it's own design.
We discussed to add more modes, such as 4v4 or 5v5, but we prefer to focus on features that will make the basic design more awesome in priority.

I like some mechanics you presented here, and it could definitely become dedicated abilities for new characters and so improve the team mechanisms of the game.

Please feel free to add me on Steam if you want to discuss deeper about you throughs and I hope to see you during our tournaments!

[syn]

please don't make ACE like zealot hockey, it would be a downgrade, everything about ACE is better than zh

[orcplunder]

Originally posted by iB Meteor:

please don't make ACE like zealot hockey, it would be a downgrade, everything about ACE is better than zh

I used to play Zealot Hockey a lot until I found ACE... and I agree with Meteor.

The skating mechanic in Zealot Hockey is the worst I've ever seen. If they make it even similar to it in ACE, it would ruin the game.

The charge is already Vengeful Star's ultimate ability and if you give every runner a smaller charge, in ACE's tiny arena it would make a breakaway and possible 2 on 0 which is a goal.

You can't do 4v4 in ACE because the arena in ACE is tiny. The arena in ZH is HUGE, big enough to support 10vs10 almost. And if you make the ACE arena bigger you'll need more fuel or breakaways will go extinct.

The one timer thing is already the new runner's secondary. If it wasn't, I would be in favor of adding a control to do a one timer with every runner, but that's not going to happen now.

Agree with camera orientation but not that particular camera used in Zealot Hockey. Wow it's horrible.

But one thing Zealot Hockey has that would be a good idea in ACE is the goalie's spell. Not the charge one but the forcefield. Would be a nice ultimate, but I believe that is precisely what Chadamas already suggested in his goalie concept if I'm not mistaken. If it acts like the Sentinel's wall and makes the puck stuck in it -- and not push the puck, otherwise it would be a free goal for an aggressive goalie.

The rest about Zealot Hockey... ACE has. Except charging the shot... That's... I mean, that's Hikari, Hiro and Vengeful Star's abilities.



All that said, if they could figure out a way to make 4v4/5v5 possible and with the same playing experience as 3v3 ACE, I would be in favor. More tic-tac-toes without needing a Negociator. Those are fun! However in 5 minutes it might be tough to score (I don't know though). Already scoring is way too low. If you watch high skilled games they all finish 2-1 or 1-0... Those are intense games, but if you're aiming for an eSport it needs to have good watchability. No one likes good old low scoring games. But if the opposite happens and scores become 3-2 4-3 etc. more often, then all the better!


Don't get me wrong, I'm saying a lot of things are bad ideas... But most would be good ideas if they weren't already runner's ability in ACE. Like charging the shot. Not a bad idea, except for the fact that ACE has strikers who specialize in scoring and supports who specialize in.. you know, supporting. ZH doesn't have that.

[chadamas]

I've never played Zealot Hockey and don't have any suggestions based on actual gameplay, but I did a quick search for it on YouTube and really liked that it has all of these "Top 10 Plays of the Week" videos. If we had some people with the time to do something like that in ACE, that would be amazing. Quick clips from some of the tournaments (maybe with JT's commentary!) would be awesome, and might even inspire new players to join if they see some of the plays that can be pulled off in game.

[Tohu Meliakan]

We won't change ACE. It is a unique game wich will stay in the design it is. But we can still improve it ^^

[7-7]

Originally posted by NFO chadamas:

I've never played Zealot Hockey and don't have any suggestions based on actual gameplay, but I did a quick search for it on YouTube and really liked that it has all of these "Top 10 Plays of the Week" videos. If we had some people with the time to do something like that in ACE, that would be amazing. Quick clips from some of the tournaments (maybe with JT's commentary!) would be awesome, and might even inspire new players to join if they see some of the plays that can be pulled off in game.

i'll start doing that

[boneless1213]

Just to be clear I never said turn ACE in to a ZH clone. I think ACE has more potential and would be held back by becoming a clone. But I also think the statement of ACE is better than ZH in EVERY way is short sighted. Because I thought that ZH had some good discssion and comparison points with ACE i searched the discussion forums for ZH and found nothing therefore I decided to bring up ZH as I felt that having it as a comparison could bring up some important dialogs.

I'm sure ACE has some great plays and as i've played in games with 3 bots minimum so far I know i'm missing some of the greatness but I tried to have the vision of what it could be with all human players and I see it as a great thing. But not all inspiration has to form in a vacuum.

On a less understanding and open minded note. I think the camera is going to keep bothering me. Though that seems like it could be configurable per player.

[orcplunder]

Originally posted by boneless1213:

Just to be clear I never said turn ACE in to a ZH clone. I think ACE has more potential and would be held back by becoming a clone. But I also think the statement of ACE is better than ZH in EVERY way is short sighted. Because I thought that ZH had some good discssion and comparison points with ACE i searched the discussion forums for ZH and found nothing therefore I decided to bring up ZH as I felt that having it as a comparison could bring up some important dialogs.

I'm sure ACE has some great plays and as i've played in games with 3 bots minimum so far I know i'm missing some of the greatness but I tried to have the vision of what it could be with all human players and I see it as a great thing. But not all inspiration has to form in a vacuum.

On a less understanding and open minded note. I think the camera is going to keep bothering me. Though that seems like it could be configurable per player.

Well, I think the biggest thing is that ZH is trying to be hockey (obviously, it's called Zealot Hockey) and ACE is trying to be "its own sport" in the sense that it's not trying to be a particular sport. In fact, I think it was based off of Soccer and not Hockey (although it is more similar to Hockey than Soccer).

But there is one thing about ZH that I like that ACE doesn't have. And I actually think it is crucial for ACE to have it but they don't... And that's the obligation to have 1 goalie per team... That means you can't go 3 strikers, you can't go 2+ goalies, you must have one goalie. That, I believe, is extremely important for a game like this. If the game reaches 1,000,000 players some day, for example, q'ing into 5 straight no goalie vs goalie games every day would cause a lot of people to just quit, leaving a Steam review that says "good luck finding a fair game with a goalie on each side". Considering it's very possible that you just miscommunicate and then everyone on your team picks a striker and forget the goalie... Yeah, that's definitely something that ZH is better at than ACE.

Other than that, the only other thing is how many players are on the field, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5. For that, it would make sense of course for there to be a 4v4 mode, but they would probably have to make the arena bigger and logically the fuel last longer, too, so that would be a big change.

As for the camera, I believe that is the thing everyone universally agrees on about ACE: we need more camera options. But good luck playing ACE with Zealot Hockey's sideways/broadcast camera.

[Starshock101]

I tried zh. too clunky for a hockey game

[ACOUNT NO ACTIVE]

http://www.zealothockey.net/zhl/ ZH just has better league thats all