GearCity
Fuel popularity doesn't change?
I made some amazing diesel trucks and vans, but I'm selling one a month in the mid 30's, which seems a little silly.
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115/27 megjegyzés mutatása
Eric.B  [Fejlesztő] 2017. júl. 29., 16:37 
What is the fuel popularity rating in the reports? Diesel is not a common fuel type until around WW2. The game's static rating is 1-2% between 1900 to 1915, then 2%-5% till 1930. After that It goes from 5% to 10% by 1950. 20% by 1980 and 40% by 2020.

There is also a dynamic effect on popularity types based on marketshare. The more vehicles of a fuel type you sell (as a percentage of all vehicles sold) the higher the rating ago. Likewise with lower. Compared to the other vehicles you are selling, how many diesels are you selling? That could be what's driving down the fuel type popularity in your game world.
Why even have it availible then, tbh?

I am doing petroleum in all my other vehicles, but I screwed around with ethanol earlier. Doesn't the AI just default petrol too?
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Bubs McKenzie; 2017. júl. 29., 19:22
Eric.B  [Fejlesztő] 2017. júl. 29., 21:06 
Bubs McKenzie eredeti hozzászólása:
Why even have it availible then, tbh?

1) The fuel exists. The game includes most commonly used fuel types in vehicles throughout vehicle history.
2) The fuel predates the start of the game.
3) The fuel is the second most popular type of fuel used in the world since 1940-ish.
4) The game has dynamic popularity for fuel types based on user interaction with the world.
5) It is useful in contracts
6) Companies existed, even in 1930, building nothing but diesel vehicles and engines. (Cummings comes to mind).

The game follows the historical popularity pattern for fuel types. Diesel was not popular in consumer vehicles until gasoline prices increased. If you wish to change history, then you need to produce enough vehicles to make people want to buy them. You can, for example, make electric cars the most popular fuel type in the world by 1980 if you play the game in a way that will increase that fuel type's popularity.

As mentioned, the dynamic growth of fuel type popularity is based on marketshare. If 2% of the vehicles sold in the game world are diesel, then it will eventually have 2% popularity rate. If 50% of the vehicles in the game world are diesel, then diesel will eventually have a 50% popularity rate. This is in addition to the static historical growth rates.

You can check the popularity rates by clicking the Reports > Reports 1 > Body and Fuel Type Demand. Scroll to the bottom of the page.

I am doing petroleum in all my other vehicles, but I screwed around with ethanol earlier.
If you are producing gasoline engines at high rates, then it will be difficult for you to alter history by making diesel more popular. Because the more gasoline vehicles people buy, the more gasoline stations will be made, and the fewer people that will buy diesel vehicles.

Doesn't the AI just default petrol too?
No. The AI uses the popularity rating of the fuel types. It is common to see Steam, Electric, and Ethanol engines made by the AI in the 1900-1910 ranges before Gasoline wins the fuel wars. If you start a game in something like 2000, they'll make more diesel engines as well. *Note, there are also some ratings based selection that goes into AI's fuel selection. They will for instance, have more bias due to ratings for diesel vehicles such as Trucks. However, due to low overall popularity, they may not select that vehicle type until the popularity ratings meet a threshold.







Historically, after 1910-ish, the vast majority of consumer vehicles were gasoline only until WW2 caused an increase in diesel designs (primary due to military contract designs). Even then it'd be another 2 decades, until the OPEC crisis, before diesel would hit 2.5% of the vehicles sold in Europe. And it's now around 50% in Europe and 6% in the US. In that whole time span, it was the second most popular fuel type. So to remove it from the game is to remove all fuel types from the game. And thus removing a lot of automotive history, alternate time lines, etc.

In summation, if you want to buck historical trends, you'll need to focus on building up that fuel type. Otherwise the game mostly follows history. Which means in 1930, you need to save those diesel engines for ships, generators, and other contracts. When high gas prices hit in the 1970s and later, diesel will be more viable in consumer vehicles.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Eric.B; 2017. júl. 29., 21:11
Okay, I just don't get how you're supposed to the flip the market when the market share disparity is so enormous and I'm not some huge market share controller (300 competeitors for life).

I wasn't suggesting removing it from the game, but it hardly matters when it shows up as designable (Because torque is seemingly useless in contracts rn).

It also seems strange to consider the fuel popularity for the market as a whole. Diesel in trucks and the like is kinda a big deal in the US, but 6% in the whole, which (I would imagine the game doesn't further divide fuel into segments) makes it seem a lot less popular.
Eric.B  [Fejlesztő] 2017. júl. 30., 7:37 
Bubs McKenzie eredeti hozzászólása:
Okay, I just don't get how you're supposed to the flip the market when the market share disparity is so enormous and I'm not some huge market share controller (300 competeitors for life).
Slowly. 1% market share, depending on the game year, is not too difficult of a number to hit. If you sell 1.1% marketshare, diesel will go up a little. The next year it will be easier to sell.

Case in point, I just started a new game in 1919. Made a single Diesel pickup truck, first turn of sales and I'm maxing out production. 500 units of unfilled demand in just Baltimore alone. (Base City Map.)

By the time I'm able to produce enough vehicles, competition enters the market. But I am able to undercut them in price. While of course, I'm not the top selling vehicle in any city I don't have a monopoly in. 4 game years in, I am the 49th best selling company, only using one model of diesel and no other vehicles. I am profitable. Making over $200,000 per year after bond payments. I have a 0.7% marketshare in the game world. But that should increase in 2 years as I have more production coming on line. 1923, I'm 42nd, diesel popularity remains flat.

By 1926, Diesel has grown 1% in popularity from the start of the game. I dropped to 47th in sales, but that is mostly due to not rapidly expanding. (At the same time there are fewer companies in the game world). I am pulling down $4.4 million in profits for 1925. I've got $7m in cash, $3.5m in credit. And $10m outstanding bond due in 1930. If I were to bond out another factory, and a non-truck (have two trucks now). I could probably increase market share and profitability more. But I already proved my point on how you can influence diesel.

If you would like the save game, email me: admin@ventdev.com However it is for v1.22.1 and not v1.22. But the same concept applies as I haven't touched any of this code between the versions.

I wasn't suggesting removing it from the game, but it hardly matters when it shows up as designable
As I showed above, you can run a successful diesel company before 1970s. And as mentioned in my previous posts, diesel historically became viable in consumer after the Opec energy crisis. But if you focus purely on one type you can increase it's popularity a-historically.

(Because torque is seemingly useless in contracts rn).
Contracting system was redesigned in v1.22.1, torque is now a requirement for most engine contracts and some vehicle contracts.

Diesel in trucks and the like is kinda a big deal in the US, but 6% in the whole, which (I would imagine the game doesn't further divide fuel into segments) makes it seem a lot less popular.
Semi-trucks, yes. Pickup trucks, no. Diesel pickup trucks are around 10% of the market at best.

Semi-trucks are almost entirely diesel. But semi-trucks are not in the game. If/When they are implemented, they'll mostly come from fleet contracts. And yes, vehicle fleet sales effect fuel popularity as well.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Eric.B; 2017. júl. 30., 7:43
I have no idea how you're getting those sales when I'm selling 1-4 a month with branches all over Europe and the US.
Eric.B  [Fejlesztő] 2017. júl. 30., 11:33 
Did you start a new game? Did you check the popularity of diesel fuels in your current game?

If you have played 30 game years already, the you most likely already have 30 years of diesel popularity decline. Meaning that the fuel type is even less popular in your current game than historically. You'll have to wait for it to increase with the static historical values.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Eric.B; 2017. júl. 30., 11:35
Well, doesn't that kinda beg why the AI doesn't bother with it? I've been playing a 2% market share brand and Diesel is deader than it should.
Eric.B  [Fejlesztő] 2017. júl. 31., 15:38 
Is diesel at 2% or your marque at 2%? The AI generally uses the most popular fuel type in conjunction with the AI sub-component selection located in the ComponentsStartingPopularity.xml. (http://wiki.gearcity.info/doku.php?id=modtools:componentseditor#ai_pop) The reason for this is to prevent the AI from making bad vehicles for the market, as if you play the game long enough, you'll notice the AI has trouble staying in business.

They generally will not deviate from these two things unless a random value is hit or you greatly influence a fuel type's popularity. For example if, mostly due to your actions, Steam became the most popular fuel type, the AI will start building more Steam vehicles.
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Eric.B; 2017. júl. 31., 15:39
Eric.B  [Fejlesztő] 2017. júl. 31., 17:34 
I made some minor adjustments to the AI fuel selection. We'll test them out in v1.22.1 and see how it goes.
My marque.

I have 450 plus hrs, so I do get the AI issues. Gonna be playing a lot more for our vacation to Maine with shot internet.
Curious if contracts selling Diesel vehicles or engines tick up the popularity. (Would be nice to see if anything is trending up or down in general too. Game kinda lacks feedback, like the world outside the office is an abyss where cars are dumped and money flows out.)
Eric.B  [Fejlesztő] 2017. aug. 6., 20:48 
Diesel vehicles sold via contract would count to fuel type popularity. Engine contracts do not, as they're typically not vehicle or consumer related.
Ah ok, that helps a lot. The military seems to love diesel bids on contracts.
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