Why is everyone so satisfied with the game?

[Slin]

Am I the only one who is pretty unhappy with this game because of the low content?
And im not talking about the low quantity of levels, heroes and enemies... But for example about the mechanics of tower upgrades.
In previous parts we got a 2-way-upgrade system for towers, where you could choose the way of tower improvement in this or that dierection. Unfortunately thats not inside the game, and i dont understand why. It was a solid and interesting mechanic, whats the reason for downgrading this? I know, it was allready not implemented in KR4, but at least we had 3 kinds of tower skill improvements / skills there. In this part there are ony 2... Why that downgrade?

Also the Skilltree is very short. I like the way of some effects are based on good or evil heroes. but why isnt there just more? I mean, they got the experience of 4 other TD games they made, so what is the reason to make a part 5 wich is so slim, instead of put everything of part 1-4 inside it and improve it?

Level Design is also nothing special, only new things are the transmutation eye or stoneplate for phantoms... even part 3 was more interesting.

So, when there are no new ideas for brandnew content after 4 parts, thats ok! I understand thats. But then take the good stuff of part 1-4, make a nice mix - or do some kind of "best of" - with old content in new design. That would be allright, everyone is here because we like the old content. But to me this part feels ike a big downgrade, compared to the mechanics we allready had in previous games.

I really dont understand why everone is that happy and the rewievs are that good. And i really hope that they will deliver a lot of more content in addition, to make that game a full "complete game" experience.

[Slin]

i dont even disgagree with these facts. And i understand and accept that you are very satisfied with the game in the way it is. For me, i dont see much improvement, wich is also a fact, cause its the same like KR4, but with less tower upgrade skills. Wich is a fact, istn it? So when its the same like KR4, but with less tower upgrade skills, doesnt it make a slimmed version of part 4 in this case? Yes, it gave us an improvement in using 2 heroes now. Ok, but for me, subjectively, the core of a TD game are the towers. And i would like to see some improvement here, instead of a downgrade, wich it is, objectively, compared to the last part.
So, after detailing this, i think we are no step further, cause still you got your opinion, and i got mine.
Generaly, when i buy a new game of a series, i expect some more improvements and new stuff. At least not less stuff than before. Otherwise there is no reaseon to buy a new part, you can play the previous one, cause its just the same.

??? eredeti hozzászólása:

Wow this thread is such a clown show.

I agree. But isnt almost every thread in Steam Forum a clown show? For me, the biggest clowns are people, who are not involved in any discussion, and just acting as a sidekick, with unnecessary coments from the second row. Just let people keep doing their thing if they like to, nobody forced you to be here and read the thread.

Can get closed from my side.

[???]

Slin eredeti hozzászólása:

i dont even disgagree with these facts. And i understand and accept that you are very satisfied with the game in the way it is. For me, i dont see much improvement, wich is also a fact, cause its the same like KR4, but with less tower upgrade skills. Wich is a fact, istn it? So when its the same like KR4, but with less tower upgrade skills, doesnt it make a slimmed version of part 4 in this case? Yes, it gave us an improvement in using 2 heroes now. Ok, but for me, subjectively, the core of a TD game are the towers. And i would like to see some improvement here, instead of a downgrade, wich its is, objectively, compared to the last part.
So, after detaling this, i think we are no step further, cause still you got your opinion, and i got mine.

??? eredeti hozzászólása:

Wow this thread is such a clown show.

I agree. But isnt almost every thread in Steam Forum a clown show? For me, the biggest clowns are people, who are not involved in any discussion, and just acting as a sidekick, with unnecessary coments from the second row. Just let keep people do their thing if they like to, nobody forced you to be here and read the thread.

Can get closed from my side.

Its entertaining watching you claiming subjective matters as objective facts. The fact that you responded to my troll comment indicate that you really are nothing more than a clown.

[Shyguymask]

Slin eredeti hozzászólása:

i dont even disgagree with these facts.

For me, i dont see much improvement, wich is also a fact

Clearly you still seem to disagree considering you continue to talk about KRA as if it's doing something different let alone worse compared to the rest of the series in this case.

cause its the same like KR4, but with less tower upgrade skills. Wich is a fact, istn it

It's also a fact that this is better for the design & balance of the game with IronHide's track record taken into account. More doesn't equal better, especially in this series. "Quality over quantity" is pretty much the series's biggest strength.

instead of a downgrade, wich its is, objectively, compared to the last part.

If you want to disagree, then go back to my post on page 3 and thoroughly debunk my post there. Your claim that 2 upgrades is a "downgrade" stands on no grounds until you refute my in-depth breakdown at how KRV alone shows how three upgrades on towers doesn't work out well design and balance-wise in the vast majority of cases. Even looking at the original trilogy you have a lot of "third" Barracks upgrades like Edge Mastery and Holy Strike that are not only fundamentally bad, but also don't mesh well with their tower, at worst having anti-synergy.

I'll quote my post here:

Shyguymask eredeti hozzászólása:

What you also call "downgrade in tower mechanics" in reality can be considered an improvement because Vengeance had a problem where a lot of towers were overpowered and it was generally less encouraged to synergize towers together. Now let's look at all of the KRV towers and if three upgrades actually added significant substance to the gameplay:

-Shadow Archer has a "Mark" debuff and an instakill at the same time, which doesn't really mesh well together (I also dislike Origins golden longbow in that aspect), and who can forget about the awful crow? One of these skills could be removed and Shadow Archer would still be around the same.

-Orc Warriors only has stats upgrades. One of them is for damage, one of them is for survivability and the third one does both. So there are technically two damage upgrades and two survivability upgrades on the same tower, so if it was condensed into just two upgrades for each aspect there wouldn't really be a loss.

-Infernal Mage upgrades are fine, but it would still remain fine as the basic magic tower if the armor/resistance deletion upgrade was removed.

-Rocket Riders upgrades are ok by themselves, but it feels like they threw in random stuff as upgrades that don't really synergize with each other in any meaningful ways. I'd prefer if one of these upgrades was removed and the remaining two were more focused on so that the tower would be closer to having a specific niche.

-Dark Knights cannot decide on if they want to instakill enemies or wear them out with Thorns/Reflect damage.

-Melting Furnace's Abrasive Heat upgrade feels like it was just slapped on for the sake of it. Do you want to position Melting furnace on a curve or to buff your towers? These two aspects don't mesh well together and there wouldn't really be a big loss with that upgrade removed.

-No issues with Mausoleum I guess

-I don't think Goblinrangs would suffer a significant loss if the Angry Bees upgrade was removed. The boomerangs are why you're using the tower, and both damage and crowd control are included in those boomerangs already.

-No issues with Bone Flingers

-Twilight Harassers don't need Fury of the Twilight, not only are they mainly used to spam arrrows at the enemy but they have Backstab to improve survivability at close-range combat anyway. Remove that upgrade and nothing really changes.

-Orc Shaman doesn't know what it wants to be as a whole. Similar to Rocket Riders they slapped a bunch of different things together and called it a new tower. I don't hate it but it's not really a highlight.

-Grim Cemetery is fine

-Rotten Forest is awesome actually

-Ignis Altar is fine

-Deep Devil Reef's net throw is stupid and doesn't fit the tower at all, if anything it work against it because the trapped enemy will not be blocked by soldiers nor will it be targeted by the magic portion of the tower.

-Shaolin Temple by itself is creative enough, but the upgrades not so much. Generic lone unit summon that doesn't really add to the tower's concept, and simple gold-collection upgrade. Could have been better if either these two upgrades were replaced by a better one that meshes with the tower better, or if one of them is removed and the other is fleshed out more.

-Blazing Gem contradicts itself. Does it want to kill enemies through sheer consistent DPS, or does it want to insta-kill them? These two things work against each other. Remove Destructo-Ray.

-Wicked Sisters is fine

-Swamp Thing's only really important upgrade is Binding Liquid. The other two are situational at best, at least Carnivore is. I don't want to use Melee mode to kill weaker enemies to heal my Swamp Thing instead of just having it continously throw high damage stunning projectiles from afar. At least "Smash!" makes sense if you want to kill a high HP non-boss target. Remove Carnivore especially considering you can just retreat back into ranged mode if its HP gets low.

-Goblin War Zeppelin is fine for the most parts, but Paratroopers feels like a nothing upgrade and there wouldn't be heavy losses if it was removed.

So yeah, as a whole, KRA making level 4 towers focus more on two upgrades is a good thing, at least compared to IronHide's execution of Vengeance when level 4 towers had three upgrades.

[Slin]

??? eredeti hozzászólása:

Its entertaining watching you claiming subjective matters as objective facts. The fact that you responded to my troll comment indicate that you really are nothing more than a clown.

ehm, no sir, Im not the one who is doing this, its the opposite :D
and i allready agreed with you, so have fun enjoying yourself under your bridge

[Slin]

Shyguymask eredeti hozzászólása:

...

ok kid, i give up. you really dont get the point. you made your oppinion very clear, no need to talk about it over and over again. there is nothing left to say and i really dont got time nor the desire for this kind of fight you are looking for. its allready hard to quote you, and you showed that you wont get it anyways.... you are right, and everyone but you is wrong. OK? I hope you are satisfied now... omg...

Can someone close this thread now, please...

[???]

Slin eredeti hozzászólása:

??? eredeti hozzászólása:

Its entertaining watching you claiming subjective matters as objective facts. The fact that you responded to my troll comment indicate that you really are nothing more than a clown.

ehm, no sir, Im not the one who is doing this, its the opposite :D
and i allready agreed with you, so have fun enjoying yourself under your bridge :FriendlyTroll:

Slin eredeti hozzászólása:

??? eredeti hozzászólása:

Its entertaining watching you claiming subjective matters as objective facts. The fact that you responded to my troll comment indicate that you really are nothing more than a clown.

ehm, no sir, Im not the one who is doing this, its the opposite :D
and i allready agreed with you, so have fun enjoying yourself under your bridge :FriendlyTroll:

Wow you really do lack self awareness don't you.

[Slin]

nope

[NerdigerNerd]

Nope, you are not alone.

[Just some nut]

"Shadow Archer has a "Mark" debuff and an instakill at the same time, which doesn't really mesh well together (I also dislike Origins golden longbow in that aspect), and who can forget about the awful crow? One of these skills could be removed and Shadow Archer would still be around the same.

-Orc Warriors only has stats upgrades. One of them is for damage, one of them is for survivability and the third one does both. So there are technically two damage upgrades and two survivability upgrades on the same tower, so if it was condensed into just two upgrades for each aspect there wouldn't really be a loss.

-Infernal Mage upgrades are fine, but it would still remain fine as the basic magic tower if the armor/resistance deletion upgrade was removed.

-Rocket Riders upgrades are ok by themselves, but it feels like they threw in random stuff as upgrades that don't really synergize with each other in any meaningful ways. I'd prefer if one of these upgrades was removed and the remaining two were more focused on so that the tower would be closer to having a specific niche.

-Dark Knights cannot decide on if they want to instakill enemies or wear them out with Thorns/Reflect damage.

-Melting Furnace's Abrasive Heat upgrade feels like it was just slapped on for the sake of it. Do you want to position Melting furnace on a curve or to buff your towers? These two aspects don't mesh well together and there wouldn't really be a big loss with that upgrade removed.

-No issues with Mausoleum I guess

-I don't think Goblinrangs would suffer a significant loss if the Angry Bees upgrade was removed. The boomerangs are why you're using the tower, and both damage and crowd control are included in those boomerangs already.

-No issues with Bone Flingers

-Twilight Harassers don't need Fury of the Twilight, not only are they mainly used to spam arrrows at the enemy but they have Backstab to improve survivability at close-range combat anyway. Remove that upgrade and nothing really changes.

-Orc Shaman doesn't know what it wants to be as a whole. Similar to Rocket Riders they slapped a bunch of different things together and called it a new tower. I don't hate it but it's not really a highlight.

-Grim Cemetery is fine

-Rotten Forest is awesome actually

-Ignis Altar is fine

-Deep Devil Reef's net throw is stupid and doesn't fit the tower at all, if anything it work against it because the trapped enemy will not be blocked by soldiers nor will it be targeted by the magic portion of the tower.

-Shaolin Temple by itself is creative enough, but the upgrades not so much. Generic lone unit summon that doesn't really add to the tower's concept, and simple gold-collection upgrade. Could have been better if either these two upgrades were replaced by a better one that meshes with the tower better, or if one of them is removed and the other is fleshed out more.

-Blazing Gem contradicts itself. Does it want to kill enemies through sheer consistent DPS, or does it want to insta-kill them? These two things work against each other. Remove Destructo-Ray.

-Wicked Sisters is fine

-Swamp Thing's only really important upgrade is Binding Liquid. The other two are situational at best, at least Carnivore is. I don't want to use Melee mode to kill weaker enemies to heal my Swamp Thing instead of just having it continously throw high damage stunning projectiles from afar. At least "Smash!" makes sense if you want to kill a high HP non-boss target. Remove Carnivore especially considering you can just retreat back into ranged mode if its HP gets low.

-Goblin War Zeppelin is fine for the most parts, but Paratroopers feels like a nothing upgrade and there wouldn't be heavy losses if it was removed.

So yeah, as a whole, KRA making level 4 towers focus more on two upgrades is a good thing, at least compared to IronHide's execution of Vengeance when level 4 towers had three upgrades. "

1. Shadow archers mark is exelent for bosses and mini bosses where insta kill doesn't work. the crow is exelent for low HP units who come out in big numbers. Also the instakill has a long cooldown, obviously they won't constantly overlap. It's like saying any tower that has an instakill ability shouldn't do damage.

2. This was the only fair point you had. Well done.

3.Same as point 1 the armor reduction is for minibosses and bosses who cannot be teleported. On top of this the tower gains use a front tower by debuffing enemies to support other towers' damage and as a back tower due to the teleport. One of infinite examples of more choices adding more strategic value to a single tower.

4. Goblin rocketeer's are essentially big bertha of KRV. Your complaints are unspecific. bad synergy with itself? towers synergise with eachother not themselves.
In other words, just subjective, you can like em or dislike em.

5.Dark knights same as point 1 AGAIN. Seems like one of the major things about KR escapes you; bosses. instakill for units, reflect for bosses and minibosses, esepcially good with their block skill.

6. Melting furnaces, abrasive heat literaly allows you to make up for less optimal placement by buffing tower thus creating more use for this tower. Why am i bothering refuting these stupid poorly made "arguments"

7. Goblinrangs bee hives do sustained aoe damage on the floor. I should just stop at this point, your points are getting even lamer.

8. twillight harrassers don't need fury of the twilight... not a single tower needs any of the upgrades, they are upgrades, they make them better, it's litteraly a chance to come back from the dead and keep blocking enemies on the path... this is getting STUPID

9. orc shaman doesn't know what it wants to be. I think the only one who doesn't know is you, it's an AOE mage tower with healing support. pretty simple.

10. the net is essentially the same as phasing them out of existance in previous KR. It's use is to take a unit out of the fight so if there's 3 units againt your 2 units, the 3rd can be CC'd until one of the others dies. Such a hard concept to grasp.

11.the monk is a tanky unit much like other mage towers have a had a tanky slow unit, it does good damage, weak enemies can barely pass it because of the tower's stun on hit.
the money collection works very well with the high amount of units this tower can keep in it's range to be killed by other towers/units.

12. blazing gem ... same as point 1 AGAIN...

13. Swamp thing. It's funny you should mention upgraders being situational, because that's how tactics are made, using the best upgrades for that situation. Mind blowing right?

14. Goblins zappers do fast decent damage at range only have 12s cd and can only be killed by ranged. And they're cheap...

All of your points that "argue" in favor of 2 upgrades over 3 seem to stem from inability to recognize their uses.

My personal opinion is Ironhide got lazy.

[Anteater]

I mean, he’s still right though. Almost every tower in KRV has a skill that you realistically wouldn’t or shouldn’t buy when you’re trying your best in a game. Shadow Archer crow sucks, Orc Regen is mid at best, Rocket Rider Nitro Boost really isn’t that good, etc. I could go on about all of the bad tower skills in KRV, but it only proves how the OG System was better and much easier to balance around. The only barrack tower from the OG 3 that I’d say has all 3 skills be worth buying is the Forest Keepers, other than that every other one has at least 1 bad skill you wouldn’t end up buying. Sure, you can say that a good amount of Trilogy towers have skills you wouldn’t really want to buy, but it’s a lot easier to say that for KRV than it is for OG trilogy.

[Shyguymask]

Just some nut eredeti hozzászólása:

Shadow archers mark is exelent for bosses and mini bosses where insta kill doesn't work. the crow is exelent for low HP units who come out in big numbers. Also the instakill has a long cooldown, obviously they won't constantly overlap. It's like saying any tower that has an instakill ability shouldn't do damage.

The instakill being unavailable against the few enemies who are immune to them does not remotely invalidate what I pointed out. There is significant anti-synergy within these two skills and just because it's not directly detrimental doesn't mean it's not harming the efficiency & performance of the tower. In this case if a pair of skills needs one of them to get effectively disabled for the other to start making sense, then there is a problem.

Since you kept going on about "point 1 again", that's like half of your comment refuted right there.

the crow is exelent for low HP units who come out in big numbers.

lol

One of infinite examples of more choices adding more strategic value to a single tower.

Bloat is good now?

Goblin rocketeer's are essentially big bertha of KRV. Your complaints are unspecific. bad synergy with itself? towers synergise with eachother not themselves.
In other words, just subjective, you can like em or dislike em.

That comparison is insulting to Big Bertha. Big Bertha's cluster bombs covers the main weakness of splash damage towers in general: spaced enemies. Additionally, it has a niche of being able to easily damage ranged enemies, which is an ACTUAL niche/strategy. The missile also lets the tower attack flying enemies, which is the main primary weakness of Artillery alongside low single target DPS. Both of Big Bertha's upgrades actually covers the weaknesses of the tower effectively, and turns it into an underrated all-around splash damage dealer. Rocket Riders offer very little value like I just described.

Melting furnaces, abrasive heat literaly allows you to make up for less optimal placement by buffing tower thus creating more use for this tower. Why am i bothering refuting these stupid poorly made "arguments"

I don't think you understand how unnefficient that is. Shooting yourself in the foot is not a strategy.

Goblinrangs bee hives do sustained aoe damage on the floor. I should just stop at this point, your points are getting even lamer.

Goblinrangs attacks faster than yearly, just so you know.

twillight harrassers don't need fury of the twilight... not a single tower needs any of the upgrades, they are upgrades, they make them better, it's litteraly a chance to come back from the dead and keep blocking enemies on the path... this is getting STUPID

You're talking a lot without actually saying anything let alone addressing one thing I said.

orc shaman doesn't know what it wants to be. I think the only one who doesn't know is you, it's an AOE mage tower with healing support. pretty simple.

Yet the healing is just thrown in there without meaningfully complimenting the rest of the tower or covering weaknesses. Just look at Arborean Emissary, the difference is day and night.

the net is essentially the same as phasing them out of existance in previous KR. It's use is to take a unit out of the fight so if there's 3 units againt your 2 units, the 3rd can be CC'd until one of the others dies. Such a hard concept to grasp.

You're already keeping enemies in place through the units themselves, the net is unnecessary and as I said can be straight up a detriment. Stop grasping at straws.

Swamp thing. It's funny you should mention upgraders being situational, because that's how tactics are made, using the best upgrades for that situation. Mind blowing right?

There's a difference with an actually situational option in a game made to shine in certain moments, and then an option that is largely useless with possibly only one or a few niche moments as exceptions.

[Just some nut]

Bloat is good now?

3 options per tower is bloat? dude I'm not even gonna bother. I hope they atleast pay you otherwise this is just weird.

[Shyguymask]

Just some nut eredeti hozzászólása:

Bloat is good now?

3 options per tower is bloat? dude I'm not even gonna bother. I hope they atleast pay you otherwise this is just weird.

There's a reason why the advanced Barracks towers in the first three games were consistently the least balanced tower archetype overall and pretty much ALWAYS had one upgrade that was nearly useless & never touched. Only debatable exception being Forest Keepers if you stretch it.

[Just some nut]

Just like alliance has tons of bad skills so the cutback from 3 to 2 is even worse.

game had 3 skills for 14 years but suddenly 3 is bloat? Yeah right. Can't take a word you say seriously after such a nonsensical

Your arguments are so poor I don't even need to bother refuting them anymore.

You're clearly a shill and apologist for laziness and poor design choice. Enjoy mediocrity.

[Shyguymask]

Just some nut eredeti hozzászólása:

Just like alliance has tons of bad skills so the cutback from 3 to 2 is even worse.

game had 3 skills on every tower for 14 years but suddenly 3 is bloat? Yeah right. Can't take a word you say seriously after such a nonsensical

Your arguments are so poor I don't even need to bother refuting them anymore.

You're clearly a shill and apologist for laziness and poor design choice. Enjoy mediocrity.

My brother in christ, every non-Barracks tower in the trilogy had only 2 upgrades. Congrats for exposing yourself as not actually knowing the games. Play the games before you respond.

As for Alliance's tower upgrades, the bad ones are Event Horizon (debatable), Rapacious Hunter, Overheat, Phosphoric Coating and maybe Bad Batch. That's actually less than I thought. There's also a few cases of anti-synergy or contradictory design that I don't like (Stargazer and Grim Wraith upgrades), but overall Alliance towers are better designed & balanced than Vengeance towers. Hell, better designed & balanced than Origins towers even.