Dialogue changes from Apple Arcade version

[sporkhead]

I hadn't noticed any up until the scene where you warp into Princess Cheryl's bedroom and catch the perverted King snooping around.

Square Enix has re-written some parts of this scene. Specifically, references to underwear theft are removed from both the Japanese and English scripts.

This strikes me as strange and unnecessary, as it's obvious what is going on, but the dialogue no longer makes it explicitly clear.

Fantasian Neo Dimension is rated Cero B in Japan, Apple rated it a 12+ on the App Store globally.

Japan script comparison: https://imgur.com/a/aivmMNb
English script comparison: https://imgur.com/a/fMsG3hM

[Faiyez]

Nguyên văn bởi deadbeef:

Nguyên văn bởi Faiyez:

You made a claim and are unable to back it up with actual evidence.

Oh yeah, kinda like that guy earlier who I called out for making things up and he replied with claims of a phantom evil boogieman "censorship department" going around censoring the poor innocent developers. Must be totally embarassing to be that guy right now!

So you are saying Tetsuya Nomura is delusional and only dreamed about his run in with the ethics department from his workplace when he gave that interview?

There's a special level of denial required to feel yourself in a position to dismiss someone who is able to bring up multiple instances of developers testifying to the facts you find inconvenient for your case.

[deadbeef]

Nguyên văn bởi Faiyez:

Nguyên văn bởi deadbeef:

Oh yeah, kinda like that guy earlier who I called out for making things up and he replied with claims of a phantom evil boogieman "censorship department" going around censoring the poor innocent developers. Must be totally embarassing to be that guy right now!

So you are saying Tetsuya Nomura is delusional and only dreamed about his run in with the ethics department from his workplace when he gave that interview?

There's a special level of denial required to feel yourself in a position to dismiss someone who is able to bring up multiple instances of developers testifying to the facts you find inconvenient for your case.

nobody knows what you're talking about because we have lives and important things to do instead of spending our time arguing about the inner workings of square enix corporation on a video game message board for a video game that we refuse to play because of a changed dialogue box about not being able to snoop in a little girl's panty drawer anymore

why don't you actually post what you're talking about instead of assuming that everybody else is familiar with whatever is the latest news of the Crying Baby Brigade?

[Faiyez]

Nguyên văn bởi deadbeef:

Nguyên văn bởi Faiyez:

So you are saying Tetsuya Nomura is delusional and only dreamed about his run in with the ethics department from his workplace when he gave that interview?

There's a special level of denial required to feel yourself in a position to dismiss someone who is able to bring up multiple instances of developers testifying to the facts you find inconvenient for your case.

nobody knows what you're talking about because we have lives and important things to do instead of spending our time arguing about the inner workings of square enix corporation on a video game message board for a video game that we refuse to play because of a changed dialogue box about not being able to snoop in a little girl's panty drawer anymore

why don't you actually post what you're talking about instead of assuming that everybody else is familiar with whatever is the latest news of the Crying Baby Brigade?

What am I going to gain from spoonfeeding you something that you can easily fact check on Google? You are not going to change your mind and concede the point, because you are not here to have a legit discussion, but for all your grandstanding you find trolling to be the best use of your time. Blocked.

[Durgha]

Nguyên văn bởi deadbeef:

why don't you actually post what you're talking about instead of assuming that everybody else is familiar with whatever is the latest news of the Crying Baby Brigade?

Sadly I've heard of this.

Supposedly Nomura gave an interview about a year or so ago in which he commented on the decision to give Tifa a bra in the FFVII Remake. I have not seen or read this interview so it may just be fake news. Either way, people claim Nomura said the idea for the bra came from Square-Enix's ethics department.

It certainly sounds like something an ethics department would suggest. Women wear sports bras in real life when they do MMA like Tifa does (with or without dolphins). I think it's a cool addition to her modern design because it brings the world of FFVII even more nuanced realism.

However some people are mad because it cuts down on the jiggle physics of her breasts. Assuming any of the story is true (and it might not be) then it's another example of sexualized content being modified so it can be ethically sold to kids.

I would post a link to the interview if I could find one. I've looked but come up empty-handed. Nomura did give an interview with Dengeki regarding FFVII about a year ago, but that interview never mentions Tifa or ethics departments.

[Shylaar]

Nguyên văn bởi Durgha:

I would post a link to the interview if I could find one. I've looked but come up empty-handed. Nomura did give an interview with Dengeki regarding FFVII about a year ago, but that interview never mentions Tifa or ethics departments.

https://www.eurogamer.net/square-enix-has-an-ethics-department-and-it-told-the-final-fantasy-7-remake-developers-to-restrict-tifas-chest
Five seconds in google.

[Durgha]

Nguyên văn bởi Shylaar:

Nguyên văn bởi Durgha:

I would post a link to the interview if I could find one. I've looked but come up empty-handed. Nomura did give an interview with Dengeki regarding FFVII about a year ago, but that interview never mentions Tifa or ethics departments.

https://www.eurogamer.net/square-enix-has-an-ethics-department-and-it-told-the-final-fantasy-7-remake-developers-to-restrict-tifas-chest
Five seconds in google.

頭おかしいんじゃない？ The link in the Eurogamer article does not, in fact, lead to an interview with Nomura that we can reference. This is why I said it could be fake news.

Nomura doesn't speak English to the best of my knowledge. If he said these things in an article then I would like a Japanese source that I can read with my own eyes.

[Shylaar]

Nguyên văn bởi Durgha:

頭おかしいんじゃない？ The link in the Eurogamer article does not, in fact, lead to an interview with Nomura that we can reference. This is why I said it could be fake news.

Nomura doesn't speak English to the best of my knowledge. If he said these things in an article then I would like a Japanese source that I can read with my own eyes.

Ah yes, the argument now is that you don't like what Eurogamer reported, so you accuse them of making it up because they didn't scan and publish a Japanese game magazine's physical pages for you.
Here is the result of ten seconds in google: https://ff15soku.2chblog.jp/archives/41190813.html

[Durgha]

Nguyên văn bởi Shylaar:

Ah yes, the argument now is that you don't like what Eurogamer reported, so you accuse them of making it up because they didn't scan and publish a Japanese game magazine's physical pages for you.
Here is the result of ten seconds in google: https://ff15soku.2chblog.jp/archives/41190813.html

Putting aside that this is all off-topic, I think we're mostly on the same page here. I never said Eurogamer was a bad source; I'm just pointing out that they didn't interview Nomura. All they did was post a so-called translation of an interview that no one has managed to produce in years. Any reasonable person would find that suspicious. That's why I said it might be fake news.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. Life will go on. But anyone on the internet should be familiar with the concept of questioning the validity of a source, especially one in a non-native language.

It's easy for translators to twist a speaker's words to fit an agenda or insert subtext that isn't really there. This is why it's important to find the interview in the original Japanese, assuming it exists. If Nomura's statements were as incendiary as Eurogamer claims then the Japanese interview should be well-sourced and easy to find. And yet for some reason it isn't.

[Shylaar]

Nguyên văn bởi Durgha:

Putting aside that this is all off-topic, I think we're mostly on the same page here. I never said Eurogamer was a bad source; I'm just pointing out that they didn't interview Nomura. All they did was post a so-called translation of an interview that no one has managed to produce in years. Any reasonable person would find that suspicious. That's why I said it might be fake news.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. Life will go on. But anyone on the internet should be familiar with the concept of questioning the validity of a source, especially one in a non-native language.

It's easy for translators to twist a speaker's words to fit an agenda or insert subtext that isn't really there. This is why it's important to find the interview in the original Japanese, assuming it exists. If Nomura's statements were as incendiary as Eurogamer claims then the Japanese interview should be well-sourced and easy to find. And yet for some reason it isn't.

You do realise I linked you a page that contains a scan of the excerpt in question, yes?
The interview isn't easy to find because it's part of Famitsu's magazine which isn't published online, though of course one has to ignore that it took me less time searching for it to find the actual text than it would have taken you to repeatedly complain about not having the source.

[Durgha]

Nguyên văn bởi Shylaar:

You do realise I linked you a page that contains a scan of the excerpt in question, yes?

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but that's not the interview in question. Nomura makes a lot of games and does a lot of interviews. The controversy that ties back into the topic of this thread (censorship and redesigns) is a particular interview in which Nomura allegedly talks about being forced to change Tifa's chest.

The Eurogamer article you linked claims the Ethics Department made Normura change the character, but the screenshot in that random blog you found doesn't say that. His response to the interviewer is civil and no blame is assigned to anyone. In fact the blog post doesn't comment on Nomura's opinion at all, but rather speculates on the purpose of Square-Enix's Ethics Department and their involvement in several ports / remasters.

[Shylaar]

Nguyên văn bởi Durgha:

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but that's not the interview in question. Nomura makes a lot of games and does a lot of interviews. The controversy that ties back into the topic of this thread (censorship and redesigns) is a particular interview in which Nomura allegedly talks about being forced to change Tifa's chest.

The Eurogamer article you linked claims the Ethics Department made Normura change the character, but the screenshot in that random blog you found doesn't say that. His response to the interviewer is civil and no blame is assigned to anyone. In fact the blog post doesn't comment on Nomura's opinion at all, but rather speculates on the purpose of Square-Enix's Ethics Department and their involvement in several ports / remasters.

Of course it was my folly to expect you to not just start outright lying once you could no longer run. The excerpt from the magazine is provided on that page in both Japanese and English.

それから社内の倫理部署からの指示もあり、激しいアクションでも不目然にならないように胸部を絞める必要がありました。

Our ethics department had asked that we make sure that her top wasn't loose so that her chest wouldn't come off as unnatural during heavy action sequences.

[Durgha]

Nguyên văn bởi Shylaar:

Of course it was my folly to expect you to not just start outright lying once you could no longer run.

"Ask" is absolutely not "force." Nuance matters when we're talking about politicized issues.

[Shylaar]

Nguyên văn bởi Durgha:

"Ask" is absolutely not "force." Nuance matters when we're talking about politicized issues.

Like the nuance behind 指示, you mean?

[Faiyez]

Nguyên văn bởi Durgha:

Nguyên văn bởi Shylaar:

Of course it was my folly to expect you to not just start outright lying once you could no longer run.

"Ask" is absolutely not "force." Nuance matters when we're talking about politicized issues.

What are you even trying to argue anymore? God you are hopeless.

Nomura shouldn't even be getting any ideas from an ethics dept about how to depict his characters. The end result is completely compromised.

Tifa has an unaltered design in Dissidia NT which was out concurrently. If they weren't made to change her in Remake they obviously wouldn't have. That's the point here.

[Durgha]

Nguyên văn bởi Shylaar:

Like the nuance behind 指示, you mean?

This seems to be a reading comprehension issue. Being rude or dismissive doesn't change the fact that the interview simply does not say what you or Eurogamer claim. What you've posted shows Nomura exclusively using polite grammar. He places no blame for the redesign and never even comes close to framing it as negative. There is no good-faith reading of that interview where he was "forced" or "made" to do anything.

If you've found a quote or interview that implies otherwise then post it. I don't personally believe it exists so saying it could maybe be fake news is a fair and even-tempered statement. People have made very bold claims about Nomura's statements regarding the redesign yet you've produced nothing but examples of his pleasant professionalism on the issue.

Nguyên văn bởi Faiyez:

Nomura shouldn't even be getting any ideas from an ethics dept about how to depict his characters. The end result is completely compromised.

There is a world of difference between an artist having their work censored under protest and a collaborative decision between coworkers that leads to changes being made. You implied Nomura was angry at Tifa's redesign. I haven't seen any evidence of that. All I'm asking for is a source showing his supposed disapproval. Give me that and I'll happily shut up.

Nguyên văn bởi Doubles Due:

"Stop complaining about stuff that was censored due to people complaining about stuff!"

How about no?

Dude just show me the receipts and we're good. That's all I want. I don't care about anyone's booby pixels.