Loki's Trickster achievement

[Iris]

I can't figure out how to unlock this. I'm playing as a rogue and I've done the following things:

*Never entered combat with any random creature or quest related creatures.
*Got rid of troll by paying twice to let Liff pass.
*Got rid haugbui by using telescope, burned ashes, spread ashes to the wind.
*Got Regin's chest by giving it back to Fafnir, stealing it back and giving it to Regin.
*When the village is attacked, I called for help at Fornsigtuna.
*Used poisoned dagger to kill Egthar.

[itsNinjaToast]

well, you did used violence by using the dagger to kill Egthar,
btw, have you acomplish the quest that a character in the guild asks you to deal with his brother. He asks an item as a proof that you did. Find a way to present that item to him, without (as the achievement suggests) using violence. It starts at the gem room.

[Iris]

I don't think there is a non violent way of dealing with Egthar... anyway, yes, I gave Regin the chest without Fafnir getting hurt or killed but it still didn't work :/

[Radiant]

You get the achievement before dealing with Egther, so how exactly you kill Egther is irrelevant.

[itsNinjaToast]

heres the truth, i really didn't wanned to tell you how because, on my quick gameplay, i kinda forgot that i was on offline mode so i got no achievements.
but i do hope this doesn't spoil things here, also hope Radiant doesn't get mad hehe.

heres what i did. following someones guide: *Spoilers*

Hagubui: Used the spyglass in Aurvandel's tower in the evening to identify the wraith's grave.
Fafnir: Gave the chest back to him (and steal it later like a badass).
Eitri: Keep looking at his items (or talk about yours) until he stops.
Skrymir: Got caught in the trap in his house and used Fast-talk.
Fremont: Took the long way around (you can also pay him if doing the quest).
Battle of Munarvagir: Crawled the wall and went to get help on Fornsigtuna.
Fenrir: Used the magic harp to pacify the wolf.
Egther: i think i also Stab'd him in the back using the poisoned dagger.

[itsNinjaToast]

Once my new pc arrives(hopefully), you can declare this achievement season open.
im gonna go beserk on those quests, but only after i finish a few undone works here on steam of course :D

[Iris]

Oh yeah, I forget about being nice to Eitri. Thanks, I'll try it again sometime.

[ultramage]

Yeah, my guide ... only after writing it did I realize I didn't have the achievement yet. I did around 30 playthroughs with various combinations, trying to confirm/rule-out as many choices as I could in a single attempt. After zero success I eventually just tried doing all of them, and still got nothing. A week more and I was about to bug Radiant via e-mail about it. It is possible I was offline while doing that part, since I assumed the achievement was awarded during the outro. I'll try it again, and then use alternate steam accounts for additional testing.

What I'd eventually like to determine is which decisions are mandatory, which ones are irrelevant, and if there are any that are optional but doing them wrong results in failure.

EDIT: Radiant elsewhere confirmed that the proper 'trickster' way of handling Fafnir's chest is to chuck it off the cliff and get him killed. A malicious solution with a very violent outcome, befitting the title of the achievement, but not as much the description/instructions.

[Iris]

Originally posted by ultramage:

Yeah, this guide[astats.astats.nl] ... only after writing it did I realize I didn't have the achievement yet. I did around 30 playthroughs with various combinations, trying to confirm/rule-out as many choices as I could in a single attempt. After zero success I eventually just tried doing all of them, and still got nothing. A week more and I was about to bug Radiant via e-mail about it. It is possible I was offline while doing that part, since I assumed the achievement was awarded during the outro. I'll try it again, and then use alternate steam accounts for additional testing.

What I'd eventually like to determine is which decisions are mandatory, which ones are irrelevant, and if there are any that are optional but doing them wrong results in failure.

Cool! One thing that comes to mind - deliver fox fur without using violence to get it. I don't even remember if it's possible with a rogue but if it is, it's worth a shot. And maybe Skymir's challenge is mandatory?

Another guide I found, this guy unlocked it and gave some tips, however it didn't work for me, something is missing or I was too violent with Eitri and botched it.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3604528&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=6

[ultramage]

With the fox, the option for all classes is to either rip some fur out while the fox is in inventory, or have it leave fur on the ground by itself when you let it go into the foxhole. I highly doubt this one counts though.

That posting implies that you need to play through the whole game and do all the quests... that would be quite a bother. Too bad there's no progress indicator, that way one could at least tell which actions count and which are irrelevant.

[Radiant]

No, you don't have to do all the quests; there are other achievements for that (e.g. "Ultimate Rogue").

[Radagast the Brown]

This Achievement is completely bugged for me unfortunately. I spent hours just for it only to fail miserably... :(

Any idea why?

Played as Rogue and did the following:

1. Avoided all random Encounters. (loaded game if entered combat)

2. Haugbui: Used the spyglass in Aurvandel's tower in the evening to identify the wraith's grave so I finished the quest without violence. (fox fur=just picked up the fox with stealth and left it in its hole)

3. Fafnir: Gave the chest back to him (and found it later in ice wall location). Gave it to Regin afterwards to get the Horse figurine.

4. Eitri: Kept looking at his items (and talked about mine) until he stopped.

5. Skrymir: Got caught the trap in his house and used Fast-talk to free Heime.

6. Fremont: Took the long way around and I actually paid him only once to pass when needed. (COULD THIS BE THE REASON? Should I have paid him twice or something? It's the only thing I can think of but it's stupid)

7. Battle of Munarvagir: Used the Thieves' Lodge escape tunnel and teleported to Fornsigtuna for help. Talked to a guard there once inside and he brought an army to Munarvagir.

8. Fenrir: Used the magic harp to pacify the wolf.

9. Egther: Stabbed him in the back using a poisoned dagger. (That's the only way for Loki Trickster right? )

10. I did break in some apartments as a rogue. Surely that's not supposed to be violence right? I even stole both the Eyes so I didn't really have to complete any of the side quests. I really got frustrated over this achievement, way too much time spent on it...

PS1 : Amazing game, exceptional and memorable ending too. I never thought I'd live through such a great experience in adventuring again. It's been since the era of Lucasarts adventures and the 90s, that I last stumbled upon such a wonderful work in it's genre.

PS2: My thanks to the great dev. team that came up with the ideas and the beautiful execution for this oldschool gem!

[ultramage]

It's pretty painful. The objective is unclear, there is no progress counter/indicator, there is no feedback when you're doing things right, and no feedback when you do something wrong. Some of the items on the list may be optional or even irrelevant, but I can't even begin testing them without a working baseline.

It could also be that the 'violence' part is misunderstood. Is using violence in a non-violent situation acceptable? (kicking Ratatosk away seems to be the only possible action). Is being trapped in a room a violent situation, and is speaking death threats a violent action? When is a situation considered violent? (Fafnir only becomes aggressive when you refuse to return the chest). Is being denied passage over a bridge a violent situation?

Maybe the actual logic of the achievement is "solve these X tasks without resorting to violence". Would that mean that all those tasks have a violent + non-violent solution? (would help narrow it down).

PS: "Gave the chest back to him (and found it later in ice wall location)" <- is that a real thing? I thought he would carry the chest on him from that point onwards. Does that mean the chest will exist in two locations simultaneously? Can you obtain 2 chests? ^^

[Radagast the Brown]

Yes everything is unclear and very frustrating/annoying about this badge... I even checked guides about it, I've done everything, and still can't unlock it. The only thing I didn't try is bribe the fremont troll for a second time too. I remember I only bribed him once. Bored to load just for that though, unless I'm certain this is it.

And for the chest yes it's real.
After I gave the chest back to him I found it lying down in ice wall location (before loki's room). The text said that supposedly this was his new hiding place after I gave it back, since he doesn't really carry it around "on him". But a good thief always finds hidden stuff. :) Something along those lines anywayz. xD

I'm pretty sure you can't get two chests though I didn't test it to be sure. It was just a new place for him to hide it after I gave it back. And frankly I didn't ever see that solution for the chest, in any guide/walkthrough out there, could it be a new version (latest patch) thing or something that was implemented and forgotten ? It almost seems like an easter egg. :)

[Radagast the Brown]

Unfortunately I also tried loading my game and bribing the troll in the bridge a 2nd time, thinking that might have been it. And finished the rest of the game with no skipping dialogue in Thrivaldi/Egther sequences. I still didn't get the achievement.

I'm starting to think that maybe breaking into places as a rogue, is equal to violent behaviour and fails the achievement...

[Wonko]

Originally posted by ultramage:

Yeah, this guide[astats.astats.nl] ... only after writing it did I realize I didn't have the achievement yet. I did around 30 playthroughs with various combinations, trying to confirm/rule-out as many choices as I could in a single attempt. After zero success I eventually just tried doing all of them, and still got nothing. A week more and I was about to bug Radiant via e-mail about it. It is possible I was offline while doing that part, since I assumed the achievement was awarded during the outro. I'll try it again, and then use alternate steam accounts for additional testing.

What I'd eventually like to determine is which decisions are mandatory, which ones are irrelevant, and if there are any that are optional but doing them wrong results in failure.

Thank you for that guide, when getting ready to do my full points rogue run I read it, and on a hunch figured both "Ultimate Rogue" and "Loki's Trickster" could be achieved at the same time.

Sure enough, they can.

I used the official guide[crystalshard.net] for the run with only one modification. Where it tells you to kill a troll for its blood, instead I opted to collect it from the dead troll outside Odin's shrine (never fought a random encounter)

A few things being discussed ITT that can be confirmed:

1)Pulling out the fox's fur when he's in your inventory is OK

2)Robbing houses is OK

3)Saying NO to Fafnir is OK and IMMEDIATELY fleeing combat, running away and chucking the chest off the cliff

4) Fighting and beating Skrymir's third challenge is OK

5)The achievement pops before the encounters with Fenrir and Egther

When the achievement pops, after tricking Thrivaldi into waiting for sunrise, Loki contacts you and congratulates you and being such a bad-assed trickster and how proud he is etc. Perhaps the "trickery" part is more important than the "non-violence" part for this to pop.

Some guesses

1)Perhaps saying no to Fafnir is required. It does seem like more "trickery" to get him to suicide, rather than just pickpocketting him for it later.

2)Maybe getting the troll blood the non-violent way is required

3)I suspect that getting Fremont to run away will not break the achievement, as it feels more in line with your other tricks (although I opted to bribe him twice)

4) It may be that the achivement pops after "X amounts of tricks" and could conceivably come sooner than duping Thrivaldi.

tl;dr use official guide