A Question to people saying Water system isn't an issue.

[Sniper]

I will start off by saying that I am interested in this game, and keeping my eyes on it, waiting for actual release.
I have not played it, but have it wish-listed.

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As the 'Water System' seems to be the biggest sticking point, and the most glaring point of contention, I see a lot of people saying that it isn't an issue, and others claiming it's too frustrating to be 'forced' to play regularly to keep your progress.

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So my question is this;

Those saying that it isn't an issue, and that if you don't play regularly enough it's your own fault/ you don't care enough to play.

Have you considered that other people may have Medical issues, Work abroad, Deployments, etc. that might keep them away for extended periods, and that no matter how much they enjoy the game, they cannot be available for those extended periods, and having such a system in place might not be a fair system to those people. People who genuinely care about the game, and want for it to succeed so they can enjoy it too?

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I personally have medical issues, that can take me away from gaming for extended periods, and I have friends who sometimes work abroad, or are on deployment. So for us, this could be a significant risk to our enjoyment.
We've been waiting for a dark PvE/co-op extraction style game for a long time.
We've played Gray Zone, but feel it still needs a decent amount of work to truly be enjoyable. Frame rate issues/optimization etc. are an issue for some of us with less recent hardware.
My rig is capable, I have a decent CPU and a 2070 Super, with more than enough RAM for most games.

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Please , keep comments and replies civil, and in good spirits. We're all here because we enjoy gaming, and this is one that we all want to enjoy, if not we wouldn't be here.

[Lestat2150]

For casual's and fellows such as yourself, it can be an issue. I was in my own headspace for a few days and didn't think it was an issue....but I play several hours every day. Its not an issue.

However, if you want to play a few hours a week, it wont work for you initially. If you plan on taking an extended break, you'll need to farm at the minimum 3-4 million credits to purchase the water bots and enough gun turrets for defense. You also need to upgrade the water capacity to 90 and farm enough water. This will all take dozens of hours. Most casuals won't do this.

This is the issue with folks and I have to agree. However...if you can get past that grind initially, you dont even have to play anymore. Water bots will do the job for you. I see both sides of the argument and finally acknowledge it CAN be an issue for a chunk of the community.

[MushoPork]

Unless if i'm completely misunderstanding the water system, given i have very little time in the game, one barrel = one day, so i genuinely cannot fathom how extraordinarily casual you have to be playing to not be able to keep enough water.

[Lestat2150]

Given that 1 barrel = 1 day, if they can only play for a few hours a week, then...that ends that argument. I join randoms all the time and they have sometimes over 10 hours in game and still haven't figured the game out nor know where water spawns. That's why i'm saying they need to initially grind for several hours if they want to stop playing.

[Murdock]

It's largely misrepresented by certain people. It can be kind of a grind early game honestly. but once you can unlock the larger backpack you can bring back 2, and then 4 i think? You'll start stacking it up quick. Then you can unlock base turrets and water bots that get water for you, and you never really have to get water again. And it's still very EA. It could change to be anything, who knows how deep they'll get with it or what it'll turn into. I wouldn't get that wrapped up into it. Just play the game.

[Lestat2150]

Originally posted by Murdock:

It's largely misrepresented by certain people. It can be kind of a grind early game honestly. but once you can unlock the larger backpack you can bring back 2, and then 4 i think? You'll start stacking it up quick. Then you can unlock base turrets and water bots that get water for you, and you never really have to get water again. And it's still very EA. It could change to be anything, who knows how deep they'll get with it or what it'll turn into. I wouldn't get that wrapped up into it. Just play the game.

100% agree. I'm debating the new player experience. Which yeah, entails an initial grind. Most folks I'm co-oping with still use the starter backpack (probably due to the bug that wont give them the gunrunner) and are stuck with 1 barrel per run. Probably 80% of players I've played with didn't even have 16 water to buy a better bag. That initial player experience of needing to grind several hours to afford the water bots, defense turrets, larger reservoir, etc. is what is keeping a larger player base from forming. Game just isn't for that player base though.

[Gwenster]

Yes, I'm one of those saying "The water system is fine." and yes I say that considering I myself cannot play frequently.

I travel 40–55% of the year, there are long periods when I can’t play. Bought on release, took me about 4hrs to grasp the game, by 12hrs I had 35 water. Went to Japan for 5 weeks with no gaming. Prior to departure I could’ve spent 40 mins farming water to get into the 45 range (easy once you know what you're doing) to have enough to last my absence. But i didn't particularly care. When I got back, "water death" - it didn't bother me.

I have just returned to the game with the new Gunhead & map update. For me, the game is about the "vibe" and the variability of each run. Restarting doesn’t bother me since, once you know what works (e.g., weapons), you focus on that and don't really hoard. You get to keep your XP/Prestige build up (i.e your character) That's key.

With recent updates, water bots make things easier. You can prioritize unlocking them early to reduce stress about water.

Starting Wednesday, I'll be frequently traveling again for the next 3 months, so I’ll likely face another "water inconvenience." But honestly, I’m fine with it. No other game matches TFW’s feel, vibe and aesthetics. It's truly unique.

Ultimately the devs are 100% upfront about the mechanics and their vision for the game. It is up to you to decide whether you are in or not.

[Lestat2150]

Yep, that vibe is why I consistently play this despite the lack of content.

[Azrael]

First goal is 16 water so you can buy larger Rigs.

Mech Trenches is still an easy map to farm water.

98% of quests are between 1 to 5 days water reward. If your water storage is full, all water rewards/looted water go into your inventory.

Get a equipment runner(3 large slots) or if you play bagman the rack( 8 large slots).

Don't go into maps with one mag. Take your time don't rush.

Use a scanner as soons as you can buy it with a rig with at least two large slots.

Focus on mech trenches for water and for easy exp and loot / credits scrapyard nexus, just stay at the extraction, kill all cyborgs and drones loot and leave. Check europa for quests like killing cyborgs/ destroy eurasia/euraska forces.

Before you get water robots you should build up your defense towers in your innards and ofc upgrade you water tank to max.

Stop listening to ppl who don't even own or play the game.

[Hellzcatz]

Originally posted by Sniper:

I will start off by saying that I am interested in this game, and keeping my eyes on it, waiting for actual release.
I have not played it, but have it wish-listed.

--------------------------

As the 'Water System' seems to be the biggest sticking point, and the most glaring point of contention, I see a lot of people saying that it isn't an issue, and others claiming it's too frustrating to be 'forced' to play regularly to keep your progress.

--------------------------

So my question is this;

Those saying that it isn't an issue, and that if you don't play regularly enough it's your own fault/ you don't care enough to play.

Have you considered that other people may have Medical issues, Work abroad, Deployments, etc. that might keep them away for extended periods, and that no matter how much they enjoy the game, they cannot be available for those extended periods, and having such a system in place might not be a fair system to those people. People who genuinely care about the game, and want for it to succeed so they can enjoy it too?

--------------------------

I personally have medical issues, that can take me away from gaming for extended periods, and I have friends who sometimes work abroad, or are on deployment. So for us, this could be a significant risk to our enjoyment.
We've been waiting for a dark PvE/co-op extraction style game for a long time.
We've played Gray Zone, but feel it still needs a decent amount of work to truly be enjoyable. Frame rate issues/optimization etc. are an issue for some of us with less recent hardware.
My rig is capable, I have a decent CPU and a 2070 Super, with more than enough RAM for most games.

----------------------------

Please , keep comments and replies civil, and in good spirits. We're all here because we enjoy gaming, and this is one that we all want to enjoy, if not we wouldn't be here.

They probably don´t care. They are akin to the "git gud" crowd we see everywhere in gaming that does not care about other people wanting a more friend and accessible game.

[Neon]

Originally posted by Sniper:

I will start off by saying that I am interested in this game, and keeping my eyes on it, waiting for actual release.
I have not played it, but have it wish-listed.

--------------------------

As the 'Water System' seems to be the biggest sticking point, and the most glaring point of contention, I see a lot of people saying that it isn't an issue, and others claiming it's too frustrating to be 'forced' to play regularly to keep your progress.

--------------------------

So my question is this;

Those saying that it isn't an issue, and that if you don't play regularly enough it's your own fault/ you don't care enough to play.

Have you considered that other people may have Medical issues, Work abroad, Deployments, etc. that might keep them away for extended periods, and that no matter how much they enjoy the game, they cannot be available for those extended periods, and having such a system in place might not be a fair system to those people. People who genuinely care about the game, and want for it to succeed so they can enjoy it too?

--------------------------

I personally have medical issues, that can take me away from gaming for extended periods, and I have friends who sometimes work abroad, or are on deployment. So for us, this could be a significant risk to our enjoyment.
We've been waiting for a dark PvE/co-op extraction style game for a long time.
We've played Gray Zone, but feel it still needs a decent amount of work to truly be enjoyable. Frame rate issues/optimization etc. are an issue for some of us with less recent hardware.
My rig is capable, I have a decent CPU and a 2070 Super, with more than enough RAM for most games.

----------------------------

Please , keep comments and replies civil, and in good spirits. We're all here because we enjoy gaming, and this is one that we all want to enjoy, if not we wouldn't be here.

Not every game is for every one. If this game doesn't fit into your personal life, or medical or work or military or travel constraints than I guess you either choose not to play it or you play it understanding there will be complications.

I don't have time to raid high end content in MMO's anymore due to work. So I just don't do it. I don't go into the WoW forums and cry about the game needing to change to fit my personal circumstances.

The entitlement is strong in here.

[Lestat2150]

And if you need quick, easy money, you can farm nexus elevator. The spawn point is right there at the timed extract. The whole run takes 4 minutes and you will leave with thousands of credits and between 4-6k exp. Its probably the only spawn point where you can use npc's to help and they wont screw up the run.

[Neon]

Originally posted by sterpogamer:

Originally posted by Neon:

Not every game is for every one. If this game doesn't fit into your personal life, or medical or work or military or travel constraints than I guess you either choose not to play it or you play it understanding there will be complications.

I don't have time to raid high end content in MMO's anymore due to work. So I just don't do it. I don't go into the WoW forums and cry about the game needing to change to fit my personal circumstances.

The entitlement is strong in here.

thing about that is, there's no reason for this restriction. it's fine if a game specializes, but here with water it gives absurdly little positive benefit to justify the much stronger downside of pushing away so many people.

There are plenty of reasons, you just don't like them. I don't care if it pushes people away, this isn't Fortnite. Not every game is for every one.

Are you the kind of person asking for an easy mode on Dark Souls? Do you think the difficulty of a souls game has "absurdly little positive benefit to justify the much stronger downside of pushing away so many people"

Does everything have to be homogenized down to a gray paste to appeal to all? Where does it end with you people.

[Blamite Delight]

pretty much all of the maps have water barrels that you can take in 2-3 at a time depending on the Scav Rig you have equiped. Doing simple missions also rewards water. You can easily snowball/stockpile water.

[Sniper]

Originally posted by Neon:

The entitlement is strong in here.

I don't get where you're equating this to 'Entitlement'.

I am an avid gamer, I enjoy gaming, I find it a good way to focus on things other than my real life situation.
As I've said, I am looking forward to this game, and have it wish-listed.
I am looking for constructive information on how this system, as it is, would affect my enjoyment of the game.

That isn't entitlement, it's a request for information.

Please don't misrepresent my enquiry in such a manner. As I said, I'm here for a civil, if not friendly, exchange of information to help my understanding of a system that seems so divisive.
I want to understand it, and how it works, to help with my decision on if it's worth my time, or not.

If it's not an issue for you, then that is fine. But please don't make such broad statements that claim anyone who doesn't like the system as it is are 'entitled'.

[Gwenster]

Here's some perspective for those arguing against TFW's system.

Think of TFW as a roguelike game, like FTL, Into the Breach, Rogue Legacy, or even Vampire Survivors. They all share 2 key traits:

1. Permadeath: Runs end abruptly—whether from dying early or simply quitting the game.
2. Progression: While you lose progress when a run ends, you keep unlocks or upgrades that improve future runs.

TFW works similarly. You may lose your base (merchants, upgrades) but retain key elements (vault items, weapon experience, prestige levels) that make your character stronger long-term. It’s about surviving in a harsh world, which is a day to day struggle. Not reaching a “final boss.” - there isn't any to beat. The war is perpetual.

For me, TFW feels like any roguelike: I play until "IRL" (or the game) ends my run. The vibe and setting are what matter. People are generally accepting of the rogue-like game structures that are similar in the other aforementioned games, so why not TFW? It’s the same concept: you play a game with inherent repetitive elements just for the sake of playing it; embrace the challenge, or find something else that you're more onboard with.