This isn't a co-op game, and the early game is brutally punishing to the point of frustration.

[Onyx]

So, to start, this game has a good preface. Stealth-ish game where you want to collect loot, survive, and extract? Pretty good core.

The problem is, 1, I am a random scavenger. Everyone and their mother thinks I'm instantly a threat just for breathing their air.

2, you're forced into a warzone where the enemy constantly patrol, move about unpredictably, and will just randomly find you.

3, if you play carefully, oops, all hunter-killers! I'm not even sure how this spawns, but after 2-4 minutes in a map, they shouldn't show up.

4, extraction is constantly covered by more enemies than you can shake a leg at, assuming you don't get a timed extraction where the game spawns 10 enemies who weren't there directly on top of you, ending your run.

The thing that ultimately kills it for me though is 5. This is not a coop game. Yes, you can play with up to 3 other players. But what you do with them runs directly counter to how you progress.

My loot is not shared with my friends. Their loot is not shared with me. Whoever gets the high-ticket item first gets all of it, assuming they can extract given how completely random enemy patrols and movements are. This is not cooperative, this is a second category known as 'coopetive.' You are competing with friends indirectly while ostensibly working together. Sure, I can always solo, but I wanted a coop game, not a "do different things together" game. Needing 3 drone parts doesn't make me feel better when my friend has 0 and also needs 3, and gets nothing.

So, my suggestions on this.

1, don't take away any items taken into a mission on failure/death. Failing and losing loot is a nuisance. Losing a bit of ammo is annoying. But if I die and lose the only means of realistically defending myself, I am stuck in a never-ending death spiral where I am constantly weak, so I can't defend myself, so I stay weak. Make this an option players can turn on and off, give bonuses for players playing risky. No, the dark souls corpse run doesn't work because enemies gun you down before you have a hope in hell of retrieving and running a majority of the time.

2, add easier maps with easier spawns. Don't take away the challenging ones, but guide the player towards easy places and easy loot. Maybe make the "You don't lose equipment" fundamentally tied to the difficulty of the region.

3, make it easier to stealth or, more precisely, offer more options to stealth or hide or play dead so if there's a huge group and we're effectively screwed for any reason, we have a trump card to play. Most noticeably, let us crouch/go prone/play dead. We're scafvengers. Why is our only survival tool literally not being seen in the first place? Let us hide

4, if we want to keep the concept of independent hubs with independent gear and independent progression, then all loot should be shared. We should be encouraged to work together, not bitter because one friend collects something you need and the other gets nothing. Think of it this way. One player scouts around, find targets and marks them, providing overwatch while another loots the place. You add teamwork to the scavenging instead of just trying to monty haul the world and run off as fast as possible, as an individual.

5, timed extraction isn't fun when everyone and their mother spawns and attacks that area. Why is this even a thing? We're trying to be stealthy and underpowered in a scavenging game, shouldn't our egress be simple and quiet?

6, add more extraction points. It doesn't feel good when 1 extraction is bad and your only option is to hope the enemy leaves. It's worse when an enemy patrol runs into you and all hopes of extracting vanish instantly because you have no gear, health, or hope left after the brutal punishment that is trying to even get to a point where you can try to do anything.

7, all enemies that ever are on the map should be there at the start. Any new enemies spawned to encourage players to hurry up should happen via looting certain items, like a panic event that spawns hunter killers so you have to mad dash to leave, instead of hunter killers spawning because the game hates you.

After this, if the game becomes too easy, then there's a lot of tools to build up the difficulty elsewhere. The basic premise of the game is great, but throwing the player into the grinder and then punishing them for the slightest of mistakes is a very quick way to dwindle the playerbase to nothing.

[Sweets]

This is a case of you signing up and not understanding what you sign up for.

Its only supposed to get harder from here, currently its too easy with the buggy AI but will get better.

the part about the loot not being shared is standard practice in loot extraction games. People that gobble all the loot up are called Goblins for a reason. Gotta share

[shelledfade]

I would say it lends itself far more to a pvp environment than it does co-op.

Every co-op game I've been in ends in an absolute disaster with enemies trying to kill us non-stop lol, get better results solo, even soloing and getting 10-15 kills usually goes better than trying to co-op in the games current state.

I'd love to see a pvp-mode be an option at some point though. Lets also not forget that the game is alpha or might even be considered pre-alpha, its barely functioning.

[voloeb100500]

Originally posted by Schrödinger:

the part about the loot not being shared is standard practice in loot extraction games. People that gobble all the loot up are called Goblins for a reason. Gotta share

Or just shoot them in the back before extract.

[Sweets]

Originally posted by shelledfade:

I would say it lends itself far more to a pvp environment than it does co-op.

Every co-op game I've been in ends in an absolute disaster with enemies trying to kill us non-stop lol, get better results solo, even soloing and getting 10-15 kills usually goes better than trying to co-op in the games current state.

I'd love to see a pvp-mode be an option at some point though. Lets also not forget that the game is alpha or might even be considered pre-alpha, its barely functioning.

i notice you can target recruits so I do wonder if you can target players.

Unsure if they ever go that route but normally these games attract only the purist of zealots from pve and pvp committees. This forum would be infested with Anti pvp threads if they tried right now

[Sweets]

Originally posted by voloeb100500:

Originally posted by Schrödinger:

the part about the loot not being shared is standard practice in loot extraction games. People that gobble all the loot up are called Goblins for a reason. Gotta share

Or just shoot them in the back before extract.

well most the time you try not to be a dck back to your friends even if they are grabby hands

[voloeb100500]

Originally posted by Schrödinger:

Originally posted by voloeb100500:

Or just shoot them in the back before extract.

well most the time you try not to be a dck back to your friends even if they are grabby hands

Actually one of my friends love to be dck down, so can i shoot him in the back?

[Sweets]

Originally posted by voloeb100500:

Originally posted by Schrödinger:

well most the time you try not to be a dck back to your friends even if they are grabby hands

Actually one of my friends love to be dck down, so can i shoot him in the back?

thats a you and them thing

[voloeb100500]

Originally posted by Schrödinger:

Originally posted by voloeb100500:

Actually one of my friends love to be dck down, so can i shoot him in the back?

thats a you and them thing

Then its okay to shoot you friends in the back, what about randoms? Can i be a dck to some random shmuck?