The Preexisting Point for Offline Timers

[Marmarmar34]

Rust, Tarkov, EVE, V Rising, etc.

"No one is complaining about these games!" First of all, the timers associated with those games are due to them being tied to being always-online.

Rust Base Upkeep

The upkeep system in rust is made to prevent people from placing megastructures and abandoned shacks all over the map. Without it, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for new people to interact with the game in a meaningful way.

The monthly wipes happen for a similar reason. It sets everyone on an even playing field, as well as being a perfect launching ground for content updates and fixes.

Needless to say, a locally saved singleplayer/coop extract shooter doesn't need to worry about these things.

Tarkov Wipes

Battlestate has stated that they plan on ending wipes some time after the 1.0 release in 2025. Otherwise, they've been used to level the playing field against other players. Their other purpose is similar to Rust's, where they roll out major updates and reworks.

More importantly, Tarkov's PVE SINGLE PLAYER/COOP MODE IS PERSISTENT. IT DOESN'T WIPE!

So uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, yeah. I don't see the offline wipe argument working here either.

EVE in General

Eve is a F2P MMORPG where every single action, or inaction, affects every other player in some way. It's basically a libertarian wet dream.

TFW is a single player/coop extract shooter...

V Rising Base Wipes...

Only work on dedicated servers...

Unless you're a goof that leaves your pc on for days at a time, the base maintenance timer doesn't effect you. It's purpose is similar to Rust's, to clean up abandoned bases on the server to make room for other people.

In Conclusion

The arguments in favor of TFW's offline timer are flimsy at best, and don't serve any meaningful purpose.

Now that's not to say that there shouldn't be a fail state in the game. I believe the water mechanic could potentially be a great tension builder, but it's currently impossible to balance around every single type of player's schedule. People with plenty of time will never feel the pressure of survival, as they can just grind out a ton of barrels whenever they wish. The 'tension' is effectively killed before it even has a chance to set in.

Now, I've found an agreeable alternative to the current system in this discussion: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2828860/discussions/0/4839770694274656349/

The post's suggestion would greatly benefit frequent and infrequent players by increasing the overall tension and value of water. It allows the devs to PROPERLY balance the mechanic around everyone's schedule, allowing them to increase it's rarity and priority.

Addendum: Water is so easy to get!

A common retort made by people that don't understand the logical paradox they've effectively trapped themselves in.

Let's take a step back and focus on WHY the offline timer exists, as described by the devs. The primary function of the offline timer is to instill a feeling of anxiety and tension over the health of your base. Now if we take that logic and apply it to the current state of the water system, we get a mechanic that's forced to be lenient due to the nature of it's failstate.

Let me explain. Due to the offline timer being IMPOSSIBLE to balance around an average person's life schedule, we have a system that REQUIRES an abundance of a supposedly valuable resource. This has led to people effectively trivializing the whole timer, INVALIDATING the Developer's Vision.

This isn't an issue of "casuals" complaining about "hardcore mechanics". This is an issue of Balance.

[Gradi3nt]

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

[Marmarmar34]

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

Please read the post and resources provided before jumping to foolish conclusions.

Thank you.

[Gradi3nt]

Originally posted by Marmarmar34:

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

Please read the post and resources provided before jumping to foolish conclusions.

Thank you.

don't be a casual andy and change every game to suit everyone.

[Deximer]

Man this argument... there are a million games that have no progress whatsoever that is saved or otherwise, just as there are games that have purposeful wipes/seasons.

You could spend hundreds/thousands of hours playing a game that doesn't even have progress beyond beating it or enjoying the play through - so you've ultimately accomplished nothing at all, except that you got it done and hopefully had fun in the process. If you wanted to go back to it, you'd play the entire game again from scratch. This isn't even a full "wipe" mechanic in this, you are retaining the important things.

Do you even realize what you're actually "losing" here? Nothing, but your time, just like every other game in existence with or without wipes.

[Darkside99x]

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

So if you came back tomorrow and your save was gone you would be fine with that?

That's what your arguing for.

[Gradi3nt]

Originally posted by Deximer:

Man this argument... there are a million games that have no progress whatsoever that is saved or otherwise, just as there are games that have purposeful wipes/seasons.

You could spend hundreds/thousands of hours playing a game that doesn't even have progress beyond beating it or enjoying the play through - so you've ultimately accomplished nothing at all, except that you got it done and hopefully had fun in the process. If you wanted to go back to it, you'd play the entire game again from scratch. This isn't even a full "wipe" mechanic in this, you are retaining the important things.

Do you even realize what you're actually "losing" here? Nothing, but your time, just like every other game in existence with or without wipes.

yeah I agree, imagine trying to suit every game to everyone, not possible, just play it or don't, not to mention the game is ea and one day on realease, go play something finished or has your interest.

[kilo 40]

Originally posted by Darkside99x:

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

So if you came back tomorrow and your save was gone you would be fine with that?

That's what your arguing for.

but it won't be gone.

[Gradi3nt]

Originally posted by Darkside99x:

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

So if you came back tomorrow and your save was gone you would be fine with that?

That's what your arguing for.

yeah I would be cool with that, I play tarkov, I know what I signed up for, I played rust and disliked that game, never went back, see the pattern? I don't try to change a games design because it doesn't suit me.

[Darkside99x]

Originally posted by kilo 40:

Originally posted by Darkside99x:

So if you came back tomorrow and your save was gone you would be fine with that?

That's what your arguing for.

but it won't be gone.

I never said it would, the water debate is over whether you are ok with losing your save for no reason.

Anything else is just pointless posturing.

[Darkside99x]

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

Originally posted by Darkside99x:

So if you came back tomorrow and your save was gone you would be fine with that?

That's what your arguing for.

yeah I would be cool with that, I play tarkov, I know what I signed up for, I played rust and disliked that game, never went back, see the pattern? I don't try to change a games design because it doesn't suit me.

Ah so perhaps an EA game where people literally pay to get the option to voice their concerns and steer a games direction is not the best choice for you.

[AlexUbel989]

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

Thus proving his point. You aren't in any danger of losing anything, so the mechanic is pretty pointless. Nothing really hardcore about it from the videos I have watched so far.

[Gradi3nt]

Originally posted by Darkside99x:

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

yeah I would be cool with that, I play tarkov, I know what I signed up for, I played rust and disliked that game, never went back, see the pattern? I don't try to change a games design because it doesn't suit me.

Ah so perhaps an EA game where people literally pay to get the option to voice their concerns and steer a games direction is not the best choice for you.

no please do tell me where on the steam page it says EA is for all opinion input for every game? please tell me why a design choice has to be for everyone? do you also complain when someone at work puts on a song you don't like? or do you respect their taste?

[Gradi3nt]

Originally posted by AlexUbel989:

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

the water system is fine, 7 hours 19 waters, I have 19 days to return to the game, if you like casual games go play casual games stop trying to change every game to suit everbody, arrowhead studios said it best "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

Thus proving his point. You aren't in any danger of losing anything, so the mechanic is pretty pointless. Nothing really hardcore about it from the videos I have watched so far.

if its a non issue then why are people complaining for no reason? skill issue.

[Spaceman]

Originally posted by Marmarmar34:

"No one is complaining about these games!" First of all, the timers associated with those games are due to them being tied to being always-online.

Rust Base Upkeep

The upkeep system in rust is made to prevent people from placing megastructures and abandoned shacks all over the map. Without it, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for new people to interact with the game in a meaningful way.

The monthly wipes happen for a similar reason. It sets everyone on an even playing field, as well as being a perfect launching ground for content updates and fixes.

Needless to say, a locally saved singleplayer/coop extract shooter doesn't need to worry about these things.

Tarkov Wipes

Battlestate has stated that they plan on ending wipes some time after the 1.0 release in 2025. Otherwise, they've been used to level the playing field against other players. Their other purpose is similar to Rust's, where they roll out major updates and reworks.

More importantly, Tarkov's PVE SINGLE PLAYER/COOP MODE IS PERSISTENT. IT DOESN'T WIPE!

So uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, yeah. I don't see the offline wipe argument working here either.

EVE in General

Eve is a F2P MMORPG where every single action, or inaction, affects every other player in some way. It's basically a libertarian wet dream.

TFW is a single player/coop extract shooter...

V Rising Base Wipes...

Only work on dedicated servers...

Unless you're a goof that leaves your pc on for days at a time, the base maintenance timer doesn't effect you. It's purpose is similar to Rust's, to clean up abandoned bases on the server to make room for other people.

In Conclusion

The arguments in favor of TFW's offline timer are flimsy at best, and don't serve any meaningful purpose.

Now that's not to say that there shouldn't be a fail state in the game. I believe the water mechanic could potentially be a great tension builder, but it's currently impossible to balance around every single type of player's schedule. People with plenty of time will never feel the pressure of survival, as they can just grind out a ton of barrels whenever they wish. The 'tension' is effectively killed before it even has a chance to set in.

Now, I've found an agreeable alternative to the current system in this discussion: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2828860/discussions/0/4839770694274656349/

The post's suggestion would greatly benefit frequent and infrequent players by increasing the overall tension and value of water. It allows the devs to PROPERLY balance the mechanic around everyone's schedule, allowing them to increase it's rarity and priority.

Many thanks to you and the other person for putting this up.
I hope the devs will end up listening. What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that being ok with that mechanic today, in EA, means funneling whatever bad idea this will birth in the long run.

I've yet to read anything in the favor of this mechanic that make sense. If they remove the offline timer, it's an instant buy for me.

[AlexUbel989]

Originally posted by Gradi3nt:

Originally posted by AlexUbel989:

Thus proving his point. You aren't in any danger of losing anything, so the mechanic is pretty pointless. Nothing really hardcore about it from the videos I have watched so far.

if its a non issue then why are people complaining for no reason? skill issue.

People aren't complaining for no reason however. There are many thing in real life that can reset your progress that are outside your control. I do however agree, there are certainly some people in the community complaining just to be complaining. I however haven't seen anywhere, where the water mechanic has any meaningful value other than creating this very argument. They already conceded once and increased the amount of water you can store by default. Almost a month's worth. Which removes all the tension entirely. Personally, looking at the mechanic myself, my opinion is they need to implement ways to upgrade your base that would increase the amount of water you are using, thus creating an actual air of tension. Which is what I assumed they were going for to begin with.