Game gives you too much

[Octarius]

If you play this game (play, not sit here and cry about water) you got too much of everything. Got already 100h in this game, maxed Shaman and Old Man and I already sleep on ammo, credits, weapones, mods, parts, rigs etc tec. All upgrades in Innards bought ofc. Not even gonna talk about water because I got supplies for like 2 years of real time or even more. Atm I don't even feel like I should/want to loot anything going out on the map. This game shouldn't give you so much of everything. You should be happy finding some ammo box or medpack, not coming back from raid full of crap worth millions. After +/-50h of playtime all immersion is being killed.

[CATTY&Co.]

If scavenging has net-positive outcomes it isn't scavenging. It's farming.

It's obvious these devs didn't research actual communities of human scavengers. Something is different in this storyworld if scavengers own bases, rather than being exploited by the people who do. And why is there an Old Man - if people are surviving past their 30s that's not grimdark because compared to the real world it's cosy.

[kiario]

i think maybe the reason the game gives you weapons, ammo and health kits in abdundance is that they want you to test it all.
I hope they do a complete turn around and make the game into a true survival looter. Now its a casual looter

[Trien]

100 H is alot of time and technically alot of content. not many people hard core it

[Zorlond]

Alright. Weapon durability, including attachments (unavoidable damage every run and day), food consumption daily, continual credit loss to pay for maintenance of the Innards, random interactible breakdowns in the Innards requiring crafting components to repair (or the daily drains increase, with exponential stacking), and a population counter that decays every time you die on a run.

Sound fun?

[Madfish]

CATTY&Co. eredeti hozzászólása:

If scavenging has net-positive outcomes it isn't scavenging. It's farming.

It's obvious these devs didn't research actual communities of human scavengers. Something is different in this storyworld if scavengers own bases, rather than being exploited by the people who do. And why is there an Old Man - if people are surviving past their 30s that's not grimdark because compared to the real world it's cosy.

So you suggest difficulty levels then. Because this game isn't pvp - it's co-op / single player.

Because otherwise it might affect random guys NOT putting in 100 hours in 2 weeks like it's their day job.


I could see difficulty levels "Casual, Normal, Scav, Hardcore".
So people can put an additional layer of difficulty upon themselves if desired.

But then again, in single player games YOU make the choice how to play them.
If you play it like a vacuum cleaner you're bound to end up with stuff.

It's common in most games by the way.
In RPG's (Baldurs Gate, Divinity etc.) it's a basic theme for example that you can just steal EVERYTHING in sight - easy gold cheat. Does it mean you have to? No.
People have literally speed run 40h+ games in 10 minutes. Do you have to? No.


I'm questioning what the effects would be on co-op - so mostly I'd be thinking about hardcore or scav difficulties ending you up with more broken stuff, misfires on weapons etc. to just get you killed if you really want that challenge / realism.

[Octarius]

Madfish eredeti hozzászólása:

CATTY&Co. eredeti hozzászólása:

If scavenging has net-positive outcomes it isn't scavenging. It's farming.

It's obvious these devs didn't research actual communities of human scavengers. Something is different in this storyworld if scavengers own bases, rather than being exploited by the people who do. And why is there an Old Man - if people are surviving past their 30s that's not grimdark because compared to the real world it's cosy.

So you suggest difficulty levels then. Because this game isn't pvp - it's co-op / single player.

Because otherwise it might affect random guys NOT putting in 100 hours in 2 weeks like it's their day job.


I could see difficulty levels "Casual, Normal, Scav, Hardcore".
So people can put an additional layer of difficulty upon themselves if desired.

But then again, in single player games YOU make the choice how to play them.
If you play it like a vacuum cleaner you're bound to end up with stuff.

It's common in most games by the way.
In RPG's (Baldurs Gate, Divinity etc.) it's a basic theme for example that you can just steal EVERYTHING in sight - easy gold cheat. Does it mean you have to? No.
People have literally speed run 40h+ games in 10 minutes. Do you have to? No.


I'm questioning what the effects would be on co-op - so mostly I'd be thinking about hardcore or scav difficulties ending you up with more broken stuff, misfires on weapons etc. to just get you killed if you really want that challenge / realism.

Nah. One and only difficulty level is ok. Currently enemy AI is enough threat even for seasoned scavs. They just should limit amount of stuff you get from literally everywhere. No water/guns for quests. Money is enough. And less money perhaps. Less stuff in storages on the map (or places with more loot should be better guarded). Less ammo. You should count every bullet, not taking lightly 2k ammo for evey single run and brining 3k back. It's ridiculous. It's postapo extraction shooter, not fan mod for Serious Sam.

[CATTY&Co.]

Madfish eredeti hozzászólása:

So you suggest difficulty levels then. Because this game isn't pvp - it's co-op / single player.

Water is potentially one of the few things that can be taken outside that click-to-steal paradigm: because it's a fluid.

I feel this should be a game where there are loads of gambits the player can attempt to get some H2O... obvious ones being to set up stills or rain collectors on buildings, or corpse-theft, or drilling into weird old containers. Finding the stuff: scan the horizon for plants or insects, carry a biomechanical disembodied elephant's snout around. Disembodied>disembelephanted?

Most of the time you should return worse-off than before. Having real-life penalties was a good idea: once the AI behaves remotely fairly they could try locking players who get shot or die of thirst out of the game for 24hours.

Co-op could let people try more ambitious heists. People could draw lots to see who tastes the funny-smelling snow where the Euruskan Stalker was standing. Getting water out of a hydraulic system could require some valves turning simultaneously. Stills need 2 ppl to carry the stuff while the other 2 defend. More ppl = more complex challenges.

But I'm very biased. I don't think we need FPS games, or Health Points or Loot anymore. It's all been done. So's what I'm suggesting - but maybe a fluid mechanic would throw up some new experiences.

[skylerbaisch]

Right now prestige doesn't affect your status in regards to the 'Battlefield Hierarchy' I wrote a post the other day on this and how Devs are already collecting enough data in game to create a real SCAV log that could be updated as you kill unites or enter new areas of a map..but most importantly it could give the player a value by which the AI could assign players with over a thousand kills a position in said Hierarchy. As an example; Smaller units would be wary of you and more advanced units would see you as a threat adding a level of difficulty for players that really are just "That Guy".

[Grim@FU_BARRACUDA]

Yeah its kinda true, i have not even maxed one character (Old Guy lvl15) and i already sleep on everything aswell. I have everything except second water upgrade. But i have all weapons and truck loads of ammo for all of them, same for heal itmes and big items. Some rigs and still 800K money left. I guess i have already spent around 5 mils, maybe more. Maybe they can add more expensive base upgrades that add functionality or costs for weapon adjustments. Hirelings could cost per mission instead of one time purchase. I can imagine a lot, but what ever they do, please no durability systems, i fu**ing hate them xD

[slxpress]

Octarius eredeti hozzászólása:

If you play this game (play, not sit here and cry about water) you got too much of everything. Got already 100h in this game, maxed Shaman and Old Man and I already sleep on ammo, credits, weapones, mods, parts, rigs etc tec. All upgrades in Innards bought ofc. Not even gonna talk about water because I got supplies for like 2 years of real time or even more. Atm I don't even feel like I should/want to loot anything going out on the map. This game shouldn't give you so much of everything. You should be happy finding some ammo box or medpack, not coming back from raid full of crap worth millions. After +/-50h of playtime all immersion is being killed.

I think at this point you have to create your own challenges if you’re any good at FPS and you put in enough time.

I watched Killpo1 create a new Steam account, share the game through family sharing, and then make self created challenge out of it. No use of vendors whatsoever other than buying rigs, and permadeath. Once each character dies you can’t use them again. In 5 1/2 hours of gameplay he went through 4 of the 5 characters, but honestly he wasn’t playing like it was permadeath, so there is that. It was pretty fun to watch, although I haven’t tried it myself yet.

[skylerbaisch]

Madfish eredeti hozzászólása:

CATTY&Co. eredeti hozzászólása:

If scavenging has net-positive outcomes it isn't scavenging. It's farming.

It's obvious these devs didn't research actual communities of human scavengers. Something is different in this storyworld if scavengers own bases, rather than being exploited by the people who do. And why is there an Old Man - if people are surviving past their 30s that's not grimdark because compared to the real world it's cosy.

So you suggest difficulty levels then. Because this game isn't pvp - it's co-op / single player.

Because otherwise it might affect random guys NOT putting in 100 hours in 2 weeks like it's their day job.


I could see difficulty levels "Casual, Normal, Scav, Hardcore".
So people can put an additional layer of difficulty upon themselves if desired.

But then again, in single player games YOU make the choice how to play them.
If you play it like a vacuum cleaner you're bound to end up with stuff.

It's common in most games by the way.
In RPG's (Baldurs Gate, Divinity etc.) it's a basic theme for example that you can just steal EVERYTHING in sight - easy gold cheat. Does it mean you have to? No.
People have literally speed run 40h+ games in 10 minutes. Do you have to? No.


I'm questioning what the effects would be on co-op - so mostly I'd be thinking about hardcore or scav difficulties ending you up with more broken stuff, misfires on weapons etc. to just get you killed if you really want that challenge / realism.

Really its a trade off in co op...Instead of difficulty lvls its a rating generated by total kills or linked to 'prestige' that gives the player a value that the AI can use to assign the players a rating in the 'Battlefield Hierarchy' right now high ranking units don't really pay much attention to you as they see other units as the threat. WIth a higher rating comes more challenging game play for the players that are "that guy"...back to the Trade off, yes if you co op with a high prestige player the round may be harder for inexperienced players...but who better to have in your squad then a competent player;)

[Mandemon]

CATTY&Co. eredeti hozzászólása:

If scavenging has net-positive outcomes it isn't scavenging. It's farming.

It's obvious these devs didn't research actual communities of human scavengers. Something is different in this storyworld if scavengers own bases, rather than being exploited by the people who do. And why is there an Old Man - if people are surviving past their 30s that's not grimdark because compared to the real world it's cosy.

Oh look,. it's Catty once more spreading misinformation and nonsense, having never gotten the memo that the game is early access game and not completed,

[Panther]

slxpress eredeti hozzászólása:

Octarius eredeti hozzászólása:

If you play this game (play, not sit here and cry about water) you got too much of everything. Got already 100h in this game, maxed Shaman and Old Man and I already sleep on ammo, credits, weapones, mods, parts, rigs etc tec. All upgrades in Innards bought ofc. Not even gonna talk about water because I got supplies for like 2 years of real time or even more. Atm I don't even feel like I should/want to loot anything going out on the map. This game shouldn't give you so much of everything. You should be happy finding some ammo box or medpack, not coming back from raid full of crap worth millions. After +/-50h of playtime all immersion is being killed.

I think at this point you have to create your own challenges if you’re any good at FPS and you put in enough time.

I watched Killpo1 create a new Steam account, share the game through family sharing, and then make self created challenge out of it. No use of vendors whatsoever other than buying rigs, and permadeath. Once each character dies you can’t use them again. In 5 1/2 hours of gameplay he went through 4 of the 5 characters, but honestly he wasn’t playing like it was permadeath, so there is that. It was pretty fun to watch, although I haven’t tried it myself yet.

That was a really nice challenge he did.
No vendors except rig trader (as can't find in raid or get from quests), everything else found in raid, couldn't sell anything to trader, so questing for anything needed.
Really nicely done and switched how he plays a bit.

Do agree with op in general, but as you say at this stage you have to make your own enjoyment, create your own boundaries and impose your own limitations to create the experience you want or think it eventually will be.

[slxpress]

Panther eredeti hozzászólása:

slxpress eredeti hozzászólása:

I think at this point you have to create your own challenges if you’re any good at FPS and you put in enough time.

I watched Killpo1 create a new Steam account, share the game through family sharing, and then make self created challenge out of it. No use of vendors whatsoever other than buying rigs, and permadeath. Once each character dies you can’t use them again. In 5 1/2 hours of gameplay he went through 4 of the 5 characters, but honestly he wasn’t playing like it was permadeath, so there is that. It was pretty fun to watch, although I haven’t tried it myself yet.

That was a really nice challenge he did.
No vendors except rig trader (as can't find in raid or get from quests), everything else found in raid, couldn't sell anything to trader, so questing for anything needed.
Really nicely done and switched how he plays a bit.

Do agree with op in general, but as you say at this stage you have to make your own enjoyment, create your own boundaries and impose your own limitations to create the experience you want or think it eventually will be.

I really enjoy his style. I hope he becomes bigger. He’s a good player but more than that he has really thoughtful commentary and he engages with his chat in a very authentic way.

His video on all the enemies should be must viewing for anyone having difficulties identifying who the various combatants are. But all of his TFW content is really good, IMO.