Underground Cemetery Map

[^Grin^]

I love the map aesthetics, the vibe is sick nasty, it's incredibly fun. Once you make it past the instant death dog at the beginning of the map, which only happens if you're lucky?

I don't see myself playing that map without a change to death dog. TBH death dogs and everything un-killable could use a killable change in general? IDK if that's what people are calling Grabbers, it does grab you for the insta-kill animation, I call it death dog, cuz it runs like a dog.

I want to explore that map and check it out, it's one of the cooler maps for sure, but I don't feel like it's worth it atm.

[Lord-Captain Mikorius]

You're referring to Grabbers, there is another variant of them called Stalkers. They are almost the same.

[The King]

Originally posted by ^Grin^:

I love the map aesthetics, the vibe is sick nasty, it's incredibly fun. Once you make it past the instant death dog at the beginning of the map, which only happens if you're lucky?

I don't see myself playing that map without a change to death dog. TBH death dogs and everything un-killable could use a killable change in general? IDK if that's what people are calling Grabbers, it does grab you for the insta-kill animation, I call it death dog, cuz it runs like a dog.

I want to explore that map and check it out, it's one of the cooler maps for sure, but I don't feel like it's worth it atm.

it really feels like they have nobody actually testing anything

[Blamite Delight]

just got spawn killed 3 times in a row by those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ things. Devs really were retarded to place the grabber right outside the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ spawn and to have both doors closed

[CryonicSuspension]

I completed Underground Cemetery on my second attempt. It's not luck, it's skill.

[Crystal meth enthusiast]

I can't open door without being killed.

[It's Shas]

Get an object/enemy scanner, wait till he is in the farthest lower right spot, open the first door, rush down left. If you're lucky you can close the door at the bottom of the stairs, otherwise don't open the first doors you are looking at and just follow the sewer circle to get to the center part

[The King]

Originally posted by CryonicSuspension:

I completed Underground Cemetery on my second attempt. It's not luck, it's skill.

whatever helps you sleep at night dude

[Panther]

There's definitely a degree of us all giving very early feedback before learning ways to work around it.
Can _skill_ my way through with a scanner, or cheese it with a jet pack.
But the dogs (always got 2) feel like they trigger from very far away.
Maybe it's intended like the dog leaping to attack, but it does make the map feel more boring to play on repeat (for me).

Again if a large number of players love this iteration of the map, please don't change on anyone elses account. Just wondering how to make it feel more expressive and less repressive.
Think as little as making killable (classic sense), fractionally reducing it's attack range, or maybe giving a clear way to break aggro, iframes style parry chance to scare the dog away when it's mailing you, could all go a long way.
Just something that gamifies the interaction.

Could be that performance improvements will be enough, as it becomes more reliable in its behaviour, with less rubber banding and more fun to creep around it.

[The King]

Originally posted by Panther:

There's definitely a degree of us all giving very early feedback before learning ways to work around it.
Can _skill_ my way through with a scanner, or cheese it with a jet pack.
But the dogs (always got 2) feel like they trigger from very far away.
Maybe it's intended like the dog leaping to attack, but it does make the map feel more boring to play on repeat (for me).

Again if a large number of players love this iteration of the map, please don't change on anyone elses account. Just wondering how to make it feel more expressive and less repressive.
Think as little as making killable (classic sense), fractionally reducing it's attack range, or maybe giving a clear way to break aggro, iframes style parry chance to scare the dog away when it's mailing you, could all go a long way.
Just something that gamifies the interaction.

Could be that performance improvements will be enough, as it becomes more reliable in its behaviour, with less rubber banding and more fun to creep around it.

thats the thing thats so confusing to me, the premise behind this game is to be a scav in the shadows, picking through forgotten crates and left behind corpses, so why do they continue to design maps and enemies that directly clash with those principles, why put two unkillable boss enemies with broken instakill attacks in your Close Quarters only map? I understand that this is all still very much a work in progress, but i feel like devs are consistently undermining their own original vision by leaning into this weird power fantasy that doesnt feel like it fits in a game like this, Are we "The Guy" or not? am i supposed to hide from the scary guys in power armor, or do you want me to fight them? this feels like two games trying to one and failing to really be anything.

[Gastropikal]

First time on the map, first success, I managed to get out alive.. a little bit of luck I guess..

[^Grin^]

Booking it through the map for an extract isn't engaging. I've seen the speed run style gameplay, run and gun through, know where everything is at all times, have all the spawn points memorized, etc. That "gamer" mentality is about as fun as optimizing spreadsheets and is also a great way to be done with the game in a week. If I was an accountant I'm sure I'd love that and then go play something else (no shade on accountants, just an example).

Part of what makes Forever Winter so compelling is the immersion into the darkness. Sneak and strategize, picking underdog fights, even deciding what to carry out as the most valuable goods. Knowing that there are fights I can win and some I can't. The decision making is interesting and the Cemetery map is contrary to that. I like the horror piece of having to open and close doors, but again if Grabber gets a good jank 180 turn and zips it up the stairs you "GET OVER HERE" dead.

When decisions work they're really fun. For example the new Rat King on Arid Mesa, he's out wreckin' and I'm trying to loot his kills for the residue (he actually wound up getting wrecked by 3 heavies) but I knew I was taking the risk and it felt engaging. Many times the risk is rewarded with a fatality, and when it pays off it feels great. If my decision is "wait for the insta-kill to be over there and truck it to the extract" my only reward is a loading screen and a rinse and repeat. I'm missing parts of the map that are no-go zones, there's quest objectives or other really cool pieces of the puzzle that have to be ignored, just feels uninteresting and I'd rather play other maps.

The Close Quarters comments are great points. One of the reasons I love Scrapyard Nexus so much is the constant dog fighting and risk/reward gameplay. Grabber just feels unfair and limits what I can and can't do, not because of the risk/reward, but because it's just going to be a game over and there's no decision to make.

[Panther]

Originally posted by The King:

Originally posted by Panther:

...

thats the thing thats so confusing to me, the premise behind this game is to be a scav in the shadows, picking through forgotten crates and left behind corpses, so why do they continue to design maps and enemies that directly clash with those principles, why put two unkillable boss enemies with broken instakill attacks in your Close Quarters only map? I understand that this is all still very much a work in progress, but i feel like devs are consistently undermining their own original vision by leaning into this weird power fantasy that doesnt feel like it fits in a game like this, Are we "The Guy" or not? am i supposed to hide from the scary guys in power armor, or do you want me to fight them? this feels like two games trying to one and failing to really be anything.

Do agree if judging current state, though am still willing to put a lot down to balance and performance. At least balance is the type of thing that's easy to iterate on with feedback.

The map really did feel like an attempt to respond to comments that it's easy to be that guy, so maybe they pushed too far and will dial it back a touch, or maybe it's closer to the experience they intend and will dial other maps up.

But there is definitely some disparity that wants to be ironed out and think it can be.

[Panther]

Originally posted by ^Grin^:

Grabber gets a good jank 180 turn and zips it up the stairs you "GET OVER HERE" dead.

lol nice scorpion reference.

[The King]

Originally posted by Panther:

Originally posted by The King:

thats the thing thats so confusing to me, the premise behind this game is to be a scav in the shadows, picking through forgotten crates and left behind corpses, so why do they continue to design maps and enemies that directly clash with those principles, why put two unkillable boss enemies with broken instakill attacks in your Close Quarters only map? I understand that this is all still very much a work in progress, but i feel like devs are consistently undermining their own original vision by leaning into this weird power fantasy that doesnt feel like it fits in a game like this, Are we "The Guy" or not? am i supposed to hide from the scary guys in power armor, or do you want me to fight them? this feels like two games trying to one and failing to really be anything.

Do agree if judging current state, though am still willing to put a lot down to balance and performance. At least balance is the type of thing that's easy to iterate on with feedback.

The map really did feel like an attempt to respond to comments that it's easy to be that guy, so maybe they pushed too far and will dial it back a touch, or maybe it's closer to the experience they intend and will dial other maps up.

But there is definitely some disparity that wants to be ironed out and think it can be.

if anything im just hoping the devs choose to take a moment to sit and listen to the feedback coming in, they have all the time in the world to make something truly exceptional here so i really wouldnt be upset if we just see quality of life updates instead of massive content drops, its too early for new giant maps and characters. just cook that code a bit longer.

[Blamite Delight]

As it stands the Grabber is a bit too clairvoyant when it comes to it's patrol path. Even when closing doors to block it off the idiot devs decided to respawn the damned thing CLOSER to the player.