Awakened Empires Don't Work Right

[ThreeWingPixy]

TLDR they aren't working right the developers should fix it

I'm not talking about war in heaven. That has its own mechanics.
Here are several problems

Aggression (lack thereof)
Ever noticed how Awakened Empires will often just sit around and do absolutely nothing? Both my own experience and testing have suggested that this is what happens most of the time. AEs are supposed to go dominate the galaxy but instead they just sit there. I spent quite some time trying to figure out why. The reason is quite simple. They only attack empires that they have ‘tense’ or worse relations with. Since they are simply ‘neutral’ with most empires then they don't attack anyone. Relations are based on a combined opinion value so empires that hate them will often be attacked such as purifiers. Doing such doesn’t seem to generate much threat and so other empires won’t see the AE as a threat and won’t dislike them. Hence the AE won’t attack them. If an AE does attack a ‘normal’ empire then they can generate a lot of threat, dropping relations with everyone and then attacking more empires. Finally becoming a real threat. I’ve seen this happen once. All AEs would need is something like -300 opinion with everyone and then they would actually attack people. As is, they are very inconsistent and generally too passive.

Mechanics
The most straightforward proof that AEs aren’t working correctly is to look at the wargoal they get. Firstly, it’s a subjugation wargoal and yet it cannot be used to subjugate due to surrender being impossible. Even if it was possible, it would be tricky because it is also a ‘total war’ war goal and so you can’t get war exhaustion through occupation. There is even code to set which subject type based on the AE’s ethics but this can never happen. It seems like they are supposed to demand subjugation but they don’t ever do this. Options to surrender? Ultimatum? You'd think, but it's not there.

Thoughts? Is anything I've said incorrect? Please let me know.

[Forblaze]

Awakened Empires also just struggle to compete militarily these days. Great Khan has the same problem. By the time they become active, almost everyone is strong enough to stand up to them.

I don't know for sure, but that probably contributes to their lack of aggression.

[ThreeWingPixy]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

Awakened Empires also just struggle to compete militarily these days. Great Khan has the same problem. By the time they become active, almost everyone is strong enough to stand up to them.

I don't know for sure, but that probably contributes to their lack of aggression.

I'm not sure if you mean lack of aggression of Great Khan or AE. I have not observed any case where A.I. empires could compete militarily with AEs (though if you have let me know). The lack of aggression seems to be from relations. I think they would factor strength into account if it was a concern

I totally agree about the Great Khan. Seems like the idea is for it to be strong but always stoppable by targeting the Khan directly. It could cause a lot of mid-game chaos but not be an end-game wipe out. But as you said, it's just too weak. Tis a shame

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by ThreeWingPixy:

I'm not sure if you mean lack of aggression of Great Khan or AE. I have not observed any case where A.I. empires could compete militarily with AEs (though if you have let me know). The lack of aggression seems to be from relations. I think they would factor strength into account if it was a concern

I totally agree about the Great Khan. Seems like the idea is for it to be strong but always stoppable by targeting the Khan directly. It could cause a lot of mid-game chaos but not be an end-game wipe out. But as you said, it's just too weak. Tis a shame

I meant AE, since great Khan is just automatically hostile and gets stomped on by whoever's closest.

Most of my games in the last year or so (usually admiral non-scaling difficulty) involve multiple AI empires able to go toe to toe with awakened empires by the time they get around to awakening, if not outright solo kill them. Genocidal empires especially are prone to eating them up before they even awaken.

[ThreeWingPixy]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

I meant AE, since great Khan is just automatically hostile and gets stomped on by whoever's closest.

Most of my games in the last year or so (usually admiral non-scaling difficulty) involve multiple AI empires able to go toe to toe with awakened empires by the time they get around to awakening, if not outright solo kill them. Genocidal empires especially are prone to eating them up before they even awaken.

Oh, ok. Admiral difficulty. The test observer games I did were on ensign and by then the AI struggles to get enough fleet power to challenge AEs (maybe 200k-400k for the strongest).

As I said, I assume that the AEs WILL take into account fleet power when war deccing (since they have a value for 'bravery') so that could matter. However, I have seen them sit next to pathetic, pipsqueak empires and never attack them. But you can use a console command to set relations low and then they WILL attack.

[[OCe]Kagari]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

Originally posted by ThreeWingPixy:

I'm not sure if you mean lack of aggression of Great Khan or AE. I have not observed any case where A.I. empires could compete militarily with AEs (though if you have let me know). The lack of aggression seems to be from relations. I think they would factor strength into account if it was a concern

I totally agree about the Great Khan. Seems like the idea is for it to be strong but always stoppable by targeting the Khan directly. It could cause a lot of mid-game chaos but not be an end-game wipe out. But as you said, it's just too weak. Tis a shame

I meant AE, since great Khan is just automatically hostile and gets stomped on by whoever's closest.

Most of my games in the last year or so (usually admiral non-scaling difficulty) involve multiple AI empires able to go toe to toe with awakened empires by the time they get around to awakening, if not outright solo kill them. Genocidal empires especially are prone to eating them up before they even awaken.

Well you should look forward to the upcoming patch or try the beta then, by turning on the difficulty adjusted tech cost the AI wont be able to fight against Khans or AEs as easily