Do you realize that Xenophobes...

[Mentato]

... actually fear the aliens? They are not Xenohates like Fanatic Purifiers and not Xenoenslavers like Authoritarians.

[Kufesska]

they fear too
and dislike
and want to eliminate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Mentato:

... actually fear the aliens? They are not Xenohates like Fanatic Purifiers and not Xenoenslavers like Authoritarians.

Outside of clinical contexts, "phobic" is just a euphemism for "bigoted." It is seldom an accurate description of the bigot's true state of mind.

[Ryika]

Xenophobes don't fear the alien, they fear the alien's influence on their society.

And rightfully so! If you allow the Xeno to integrate into your society without properly subjugating them, they will assert Xenophile Ethics Pressure to all pops on the planet they inhabit, and try to turn your own people against you.

And it's never enough with the Xeno. You stop treating one species as lifestock, and soon it will demand you treat every species in the universe as if they were your equals, instead of properly exploiting their labor through slavery.

Xenophobia is entirely rational and justified within the game mechanics of Stellaris.

[Seek and Find]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Outside of clinical contexts, "phobic" is just a euphemism for "bigoted." It is seldom an accurate description of the bigot's true state of mind.

It's a Greek word, far older than any "clinical contexts." φόβος is used repeatedly in the scriptures, the first use of which is in Genesis 15:1 (LXX) where Abram is told to fear not. It means fear. It always has. A word hijacked for political/social manoeuvrings and given euphemisms and connotations that do not align with the definition of a word, does not in fact change the definition of that word. (Xeno - ξένος is also Greek, means stranger, see Matthew 25:35. It is in no way in reference to tentacled abominations, except in the minds of scifi writers.)

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Seek and Find:

It's a Greek word, far older than any "clinical contexts." φόβος is used repeatedly in the scriptures, the first use of which is in Genesis 15:1 (LXX) where Abram is told to fear not. It means fear. It always has. A word hijacked for political/social manoeuvrings and given euphemisms and connotations that do not align with the definition of a word, does not in fact change the definition of that word. (Xeno - ξένος is also Greek, means stranger, see Matthew 25:35. It is in no way in reference to tentacled abominations, except in the minds of scifi writers.)

Thanks for the discourse. I actually took Greek for quite a number years back in my student days. Like "xeno," "alien" is a word borrowed from mundane contexts to be mapped onto science fiction contexts.

But in the English language, an "anti-semite" is functionally the same as an "Islamophobe" - it is a person with a bigotry towards persons of a specific religious faith. A "misogynist" (Greek for "hater-of-women") exhibits the same characteristics as a "homophobe." The "-phobe" is grafted onto the stem more out of euphonics than a clinical description of the bigot's state of mind. A "homophobe" is not literally afraid of "sameness." "Islamo" isn't even a Greek term, but "Islamophobic" works better than trying to graft the vowels together in "anti-Islamic."

Anyways, you don't need to take my word for it. It's literally in the dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia

fear AND HATRED of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

Cambridge has it as: "showing an EXTREME DISLIKE or fear of people from foreign countries:"

So a "xenophobe" isn't fearful in the way that an "agoraphobe" is afraid of open spaces (not marketplaces). He's fearful in a bigoted way that encompasses hatred and may or may not be an expression of fear.

[Seek and Find]

Sorry, first use of phobos that I could find is actually Genesis 9:2

Originally posted by Geoff:

Anyways, you don't need to take my word for it. It's literally in the dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia

fear AND HATRED of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

Cambridge has it as: "showing an EXTREME DISLIKE or fear of people from foreign countries:"

I don't bow to appeals to authority of men. Words have meanings. Revising those meanings can be and is used to shift and obfuscate narratives and history, aside from the blatant manipulation of it.

Phobos, where the English word phobia directly comes from, does not mean hatred or extreme dislike. Is hatred and extreme dislike of God the begging of wisdom? cf. Proverbs 9:10 (LXX)

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Seek and Find:

Sorry, first use of phobos that I could find is actually Genesis 9:2

The Greek translation of the Old Testament was known as the "Septuagint" and was translated from the Hebrew around the same time as the New Testament was being written. "Phobos" is a much older word. Outside of the Christian Context, the Greeks consider it to be semi-deific as well as a state of emotion.

The Perseus Digital Library at Tufts University maintains a free searchable codex of Greek texts. One of the nice things about Ancient Greek is you don't have to worry about the nuances of contemporary usage and centuries worth of codices are available to refer you to every known instance of its ancient usage.

I'm sorry you don't find English-language dictionaries to be compelling reference sources for English-speakers about the meaning of English words. However, in an instance like this where people are using a word in its conventional sense, it's helpful to be aware of their existence. "Xenophobic" does not necessarily mean "afraid of strangers" in the English language. It means fearful or hateful towards the alien (in either a terrestrial or a fantastic sense).

The question presented here is why the devs are using a word conventionally instead of in a much more limited sense. And the perfectly reasonable reason for their usage is that it's the way normal people using the English language speak.

[Seek and Find]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Originally posted by Seek and Find:

Sorry, first use of phobos that I could find is actually Genesis 9:2

The Greek translation of the Old Testament was known as the "Septuagint" and was translated from the Hebrew around the same time as the New Testament was being written.

285–247 BC actually.
I have given examples of the word being discussed in context. That doesn't mean I don't know what someone is trying to say when they use it in a common vernacular way.

The OP is also not wrong in his interpretation of phobia.

[Picklefather Nurgle]

I hate what I fear, and I fear what is not currently on fire.

There is a simple remedy for this conundrum.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Seek and Find:

The OP is also not wrong in his interpretation of phobia.

The word "xenophobia" has a definition that includes "hatred," "dislike" and/or "disgust" for the different. It didn't come to us from the clinical context in which most English speakers use the term "phobia" (which is to say, largely derived from the German musings of a guy named Sigmund Freud). Its contemporary usage does not trace back to a 2,220 year old Greek translation of a Hebrew text. It goes back to the 1880s: https://www.etymonline.com/word/xenophobia

Admittedly, if you reject the authority of knowledge, it can mean whatever you want it to mean. But then, when you speak nobody will understand what you mean, because you do not mean what you are saying. What you say means what people hear. And people will take your meaning to be the same as the normal usage unless or until you give them clear reason to understand otherwise.

[Seek and Find]

Originally posted by Geoff:

It goes back to the 1880s: https://www.etymonline.com/word/xenophobia
"fear or hatred of strangers or what is foreign," 1880, London Daily News, April 12,

Imagine that, a word coined in a newspaper.

You know what else was in full swing circa 1880? Critical revisions of the Bible by a plethora of "scholars" with a heightened knowledge of Greek who knew exactly what phobia meant.

Stellaris has a thing called Buzzword Standardisation (and Compliance Training - original version, per eladrin.) Reminds me of that.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Seek and Find:

Imagine that, a word coined in a newspaper.

You know what else was in full swing circa 1880? Critical revisions of the Bible by a plethora of "scholars" with a heightened knowledge of Greek who knew exactly what phobia meant.

When ignorance is bliss, every day is the Rapture. Party on, dude.

[Seek and Find]

Originally posted by Geoff:

When ignorance is bliss, every day is the Rapture. Party on, dude.

Rapture? That's a recent thing too. Carry on.

[Kalemenos]

They need therapy.

[Mentato]

When you are in the debt death spiral due to government incompetence and have to pay welfare to criminals because egalitarian, deporting some subversive pops seems like necessary evil.
Of course, enslaving and selling them to countries with a workforce deficit is more efficient but once again, egalitarian.