Neutron Launchers & Battleship Design

[Sam]

A month or so ago, I watched a video on Youtube to help me with my Battleship builds, and the suggestion was to have an X slot, an artillery core and an artillery stem, with Neutron Launchers equipped across.

With this information, in my most recent play through, I researched the techs to do this. Unfortunately though, I discovered that the Neutron Launcher now falls into a G slot, rather than an L, so I'm guessing the video I watched was outdated!

Anyhow, in my game, I currently have a great Cruiser fleet, but I'm not sure what to do with the Battleship design. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Kufesska]

Originally posted by Sam:

A month or so ago, I watched a video on Youtube to help me with my Battleship builds, and the suggestion was to have an X slot, an artillery core and an artillery stem, with Neutron Launchers equipped across.

With this information, in my most recent play through, I researched the techs to do this. Unfortunately though, I discovered that the Neutron Launcher now falls into a G slot, rather than an L, so I'm guessing the video I watched was outdated!

Anyhow, in my game, I currently have a great Cruiser fleet, but I'm not sure what to do with the Battleship design. Does anyone have any suggestions?

neutron launchers battleship is best design for pre patch 3.6 meta

previous discussions about ship designs:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/281990/discussions/0/4633736292852635435/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/281990/discussions/0/597388908982998165/

personally, i prefer battleships with tachyon lance and kinetic artillery in all other slots
possible design with arc emitter + hangars + missiles

[Xaphnir]

In my opinion, the best generalist build you can make for a battleship is to maximize whirlwind missiles and strike craft. Hangar front section, hanger core, broadside stern. Fill all the M-slots with whirlwind missiles. Use three afterburners and an artillery combat computer.

If you fleets are vastly superior to your enemy, replace the front section with a spinal mount and use arc emitters. I would not use X-slots if your enemy is relatively equal to you, however. Due to how they were changed in 3.6, they'll usually only fire a single time per battle. And especially since the AI loves to use a disproportionate number of corvettes, this makes X-slots highly inefficient outside that first volley.

[Hidden Gunman]

Originally posted by Xaphnir:

In my opinion, the best generalist build you can make for a battleship is to maximize whirlwind missiles and strike craft. Hangar front section, hanger core, broadside stern. Fill all the M-slots with whirlwind missiles. Use three afterburners and an artillery combat computer.

If you fleets are vastly superior to your enemy, replace the front section with a spinal mount and use arc emitters. I would not use X-slots if your enemy is relatively equal to you, however. Due to how they were changed in 3.6, they'll usually only fire a single time per battle. And especially since the AI loves to use a disproportionate number of corvettes, this makes X-slots highly inefficient outside that first volley.

Yep, agree with whirlwinds and strike craft, so long as you can put out lots of strike craft. You can never have enough. Recent battle I had I lost 960.

[Kalemenos]

You're right, I really like neutron launchers, and even torpedos, for reasons I explain below.

I dedicate my battlesships to X slots and strike craft complimenting with missiles in the remaining slots.

Every fleet is mostly battleships, but I add a screen of cruisers with missiles, torpedos, and neutron launchers. Why? Missiles are great, as said above, but I run out of slots on my battleships, so I put some more on cruisers. But also, the multiplier that torps and NL's have against large ships makes them very powerful: they deliver lots of hurt especially to "One Giant Thing," like a leviathan (they seem to outperform even the X slot weapons).

On the wings of this kind of armada I add a couple other fleets with only arc, cloud lightening, and disrupters (hull attackers). I've tried entire armadas with only hull attackers but they don't have the staying power: they die, retreat, etc. I think it is because they are shorter ranged weapons, but that's a guess. So I combine them with the other kinds of fleets explained above and they do very well.

I find this layout to be powerful combo.

[Kalemenos]

Originally posted by Hidden Gunman:

Yep, agree with whirlwinds and strike craft, so long as you can put out lots of strike craft. You can never have enough. Recent battle I had I lost 960.

Very interesting. What is their replenishment rate, do you know?

[Kufesska]

Originally posted by Kalemenos:

On the wings of this kind of armada I add a couple other fleets with only arc, cloud lightening, and disrupters (hull attackers). I've tried entire armadas with only hull attackers but they don't have the staying power: they die, retreat, etc. I think it is because they are shorter ranged weapons, but that's a guess. So I combine them with the other kinds of fleets explained above and they do very well.

1)cloud lightning is a bad weapon
2)you better not combine full penetration weapons/fleets with others - thats ineffective
(x-slot arc emitter + hangars battleships may be exception)
if you use some full penetration wapons(or ships/fleets)+not penetration weapons(or ships/fleets) you destroy armor/shields and hulls at the same time, but it would be faster if you make all ships attack together armor/shileds OR hull

[Kufesska]

Originally posted by Kalemenos:

Originally posted by Hidden Gunman:

Yep, agree with whirlwinds and strike craft, so long as you can put out lots of strike craft. You can never have enough. Recent battle I had I lost 960.

Very interesting. What is their replenishment rate, do you know?

written in the wiki, on the weapons article

[Kufesska]

Originally posted by Xaphnir:

In my opinion, the best generalist build you can make for a battleship is to maximize whirlwind missiles and strike craft. Hangar front section, hanger core, broadside stern. Fill all the M-slots with whirlwind missiles. Use three afterburners and an artillery combat computer.

If you fleets are vastly superior to your enemy, replace the front section with a spinal mount and use arc emitters. I would not use X-slots if your enemy is relatively equal to you, however. Due to how they were changed in 3.6, they'll usually only fire a single time per battle. And especially since the AI loves to use a disproportionate number of corvettes, this makes X-slots highly inefficient outside that first volley.

i heard somewhere, on youtube i think, some ship designs video, that X-slot arc emitter is stronger than hangar front section, and ships can turn back for a shot almost instantly, while flying away from enemy
need to be tested though

also i used to have a problem with strike craft battleships wih carrier CC - ships kept fighting too close, instead of flying away and trying to keep long distance
probably caused by "preferable MEDIAN weapon range" and all those P-slot weapons

did devs fixed it, do you know?

[Ryika]

Battleship without an X-slot section is a waste of fleet capacity. Might as well go Cruisers instead, as that'll give you more overall power per cost AND fleet capacity.

Well, might as well go cruisers in general, as it's a much more rounded ship type. Whirlwind front + back, hangar in the middle + Artillery Computer gives you a ship that has barely any weaknesses and will just kite pretty much any AI fleet to death. Or even all Whirlwind if you're feeling lucky.

Battleships are still nice for their alpha strike potential, but that only really comes into full force when you're already ahead by a lot. Kinetic Artillery + Arc Emitter/Tachyon Lance (both work) is the go-to here.

[Kufesska]

Originally posted by Ryika:

Battleships are still nice for their alpha strike potential, but that only really comes into full force when you're already ahead by a lot. Kinetic Artillery + Arc Emitter/Tachyon Lance (both work) is the go-to here.

especially against x25 crisis and if you stack only energy and kinetic attack+attack speed repeatables

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Personally I go Tachyon Lance + Kinetic Artillery battleships, with a few carrier-focused battleships with missiles, PD, and Kinetic Artillery in their remaining slots (some with X slots, some not). Occasionally I throw in a few "light carrier" cruisers or Kinetic Artillery + PD destroyers as escorts too.

[Xaphnir]

Originally posted by Ryika:

Battleship without an X-slot section is a waste of fleet capacity. Might as well go Cruisers instead, as that'll give you more overall power per cost AND fleet capacity.

Well, might as well go cruisers in general, as it's a much more rounded ship type. Whirlwind front + back, hangar in the middle + Artillery Computer gives you a ship that has barely any weaknesses and will just kite pretty much any AI fleet to death. Or even all Whirlwind if you're feeling lucky.

Battleships are still nice for their alpha strike potential, but that only really comes into full force when you're already ahead by a lot. Kinetic Artillery + Arc Emitter/Tachyon Lance (both work) is the go-to here.

Eh, in my experience battleships designed the way I described tend to outperform cruisers in the same role. Not by a whole lot, but enough that I prefer battleships for it.

Originally posted by Kufesska:

i heard somewhere, on youtube i think, some ship designs video, that X-slot arc emitter is stronger than hangar front section, and ships can turn back for a shot almost instantly, while flying away from enemy
need to be tested though

Against an enemy they're faster than, they should be able to do this. Problem is, against the typical AI fleet that has 90 corvettes, that ain't happening.

I remember back shortly after 3.6, I could design fleets where a screen of cruisers or corvettes actually performed their function, with the battleships sitting back and firing artillery weapons. But that didn't last long, that strategy was dead at least by 3.9, might have been sooner, don't remember exactly.

[Ryika]

Originally posted by Xaphnir:

Eh, in my experience battleships designed the way I described tend to outperform cruisers in the same role. Not by a whole lot, but enough that I prefer battleships for it.

Both options will do perfectly fine against the AI, but Battleships are just less efficient in pretty much every major regard.

They have fewer total hit points per fleet power, less evasion, less speed (which is bad both, on the map as well as for kiting in combat), and the same amount of weapons except for the fact that they bring an additional hangar module whereas 2 Cruisers bring 4 additional Point Defense slots.

They eat more damage from Torpedos, soak less Overkill damage because of their larger per-ship hitpool and have less evasion (although that's irrelavant in the late game, as base tracking will negate both). They also require more tech.

The main advantage they have is that an additional hangar module is great against smaller ships, but the AI will generally not field that many small ships later in the game.

[Xaphnir]

Originally posted by Ryika:

Originally posted by Xaphnir:

Eh, in my experience battleships designed the way I described tend to outperform cruisers in the same role. Not by a whole lot, but enough that I prefer battleships for it.

Both options will do perfectly fine against the AI, but Battleships are just less efficient in pretty much every major regard.

They have fewer total hit points per fleet power, less evasion, less speed (which is bad both, on the map as well as for kiting in combat), and the same amount of weapons except for the fact that they bring an additional hangar module whereas 2 Cruisers bring 4 additional Point Defense slots.

They eat more damage from Torpedos, soak less Overkill damage because of their larger per-ship hitpool and have less evasion (although that's irrelavant in the late game, as base tracking will negate both). They also require more tech.

The main advantage they have is that an additional hangar module is great against smaller ships, but the AI will generally not field that many small ships later in the game.

I mean, yeah, theoretically, I agree with you, cruisers have better stats per resource/naval capacity and are less vulnerable to torpedoes. It's just that in practice, I've seen better results from battleships against the AI. Though battleships do tend to have more speed when using whirlwind missiles, as the broadside battleship stern has 3 A-slots, as opposed to the 2 for the broadside stern for cruisers, giving them an additional afterburner.

[Ryika]

All else being equal, Cruisers with two afterburners are faster than battleships with three. Not by much, but it does make a difference.