Confusion about "Number of AI Empires" setting

[Jason]

If I choose a Small Galaxy, the AI empires setting starts at 6.
When I joined the Galactic Community there are AT LEAST 11 empires in the game (possibly others I can't see that didn't join the GalCom?). And I am not counting fallen empires, enclaves, marauders, etc.
This happened in otherr games I played also.
I played stellaris a lot about a year or 1.5 years ago and don't remember it being like that.
But, I recently bought the rest of the DLC I was missing and now, there are many AI empires in the game.
Just wondering why the AI empires don't seem to match the game setting?

[SVaughan]

The AI doesn't quite grasp the concept of stability. So a number of 'empires' form within theirs, and others break away. Plus, there's the matter of still developing civilizations who achieve FTL travel.

[Elitewrecker PT]

What Vaughan said.
You're only setting the initial number of empires.

[Ryika]

Certain War Types, such as Subjugation, can also create new empires, as can a number of survey-related events.

Overall, this isn't a game like Civilization where the number of empires basically represents the number of "players in the game and only ever decreases as the game goes on. It's a game that tries to show empires that can rise and fall, and does so somewhat successfully.

[Jason]

I thought that it could be empires fracturing but I just don't remember there being so many more when I played a lot a couple of years ago. I just added Nemesis, Paragons, overlords, toxoids, and first contact. Could one of those DLC have made the splitting, fracturing, or extra empire formation much more than before? Or maybe I am just remembering wrong...

[Elitewrecker PT]

The DLCs themselves shouldn't make it any worse, it's just something that started happening

[Garatgh Deloi]

Should also be noted that there are event spawned empires (like the shielded world), primitive civs evolving to proper empires, origins that spawns extra empires outside of the settings, etc.

[𝒞𝒶𝓉𝓎𝒶♡]

Originally posted by Ryika:

Certain War Types, such as Subjugation, can also create new empires, as can a number of survey-related events.

Overall, this isn't a game like Civilization where the number of empires basically represents the number of "players in the game and only ever decreases as the game goes on. It's a game that tries to show empires that can rise and fall, and does so somewhat successfully.

This.

To the OP: I also feel that the Stellaris model of doing this is better than what is on Civilization for example.

Because also realistic, that empires rise and fall and sometimes new ones rise from the ashes again. Especially with large distances, and when some sector might have their "imperial oppressor" type of homelands far away, low stability.. dreams of liberty, of better tomorrow for the locals can start. Rebellions happen.

That is how nations were often born in our very own earth also in reality. Like United States for example, was a huge frontier sector of land for the British Empire, far away. With dreams of liberty and then a rebellion. And a new nation formed. Well, obviously they had to fight for that.

And so does it happen in Stellaris also. Some empires get fragmented into new empires, some get subjugated as new vassals, some get Liberated (Liberation wars, for Pacifist/crusade type wars)that also creates a new empire if the area when the war ends had populated planets, so you get a new empire with a friendly leader towards you (if you were the Liberator).

So it's kinda "realistic" what happens, obviously scifi game and all, but the fluctuating numbers of empires is a lot of fun to observe and big part of the game. :) Only ever disappearing/destroyed empires would be boring imo, it's nice that new ones keep rising, sometimes those give opportunities for fun action in late game, if big coalition blocks make power moves difficult (when wants to RP sort of and not outright just exterminate whole galaxy). But a birth of a new empire can open up options always. That can snowball into a massive galactic federation vs federation wars. ^^

[bchrac]

From your experience, turn the start empires down, maybe try 4. 11 empires squished into 200 star system does seem cramped. But, hey, I don't have all the DLC, so it is just a solution that may help.

[Itsul]

If you get unlucky, a few AIs will spawn with the federation origin and get 2 extra AI empires each too. Can't forget those lovely ones...

[Geoff]

Originally posted by jlane0710:

If I choose a Small Galaxy, the AI empires setting starts at 6.
When I joined the Galactic Community there are AT LEAST 11 empires in the game (possibly others I can't see that didn't join the GalCom?). And I am not counting fallen empires, enclaves, marauders, etc.
This happened in otherr games I played also.
I played stellaris a lot about a year or 1.5 years ago and don't remember it being like that.
But, I recently bought the rest of the DLC I was missing and now, there are many AI empires in the game.
Just wondering why the AI empires don't seem to match the game setting?

Originally posted by jlane0710:

I thought that it could be empires fracturing but I just don't remember there being so many more when I played a lot a couple of years ago. I just added Nemesis, Paragons, overlords, toxoids, and first contact. Could one of those DLC have made the splitting, fracturing, or extra empire formation much more than before? Or maybe I am just remembering wrong...

First Contact really accelerated the pace at which pre-FTLs become spacefaring civilizations, fwiw.

[Jason]

I thought of another thing. Some origins REQUIRE the existence of another empire, which may be above and beyond the base number of empires settling.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by jlane0710:

I thought of another thing. Some origins REQUIRE the existence of another empire, which may be above and beyond the base number of empires settling.

Can confirm from a 3.6 start that this is so. I force spawned exactly 30 empires, with nearly one of each unique origin, including "fiefdom," "hegemon" and "common ground" and those three seem to have each "filled out their set" with extra empires. I was a bit curious if the fiefdom and the hegemon would be automatically paired, and that doesn't seem to have been the case.

[CrUsHeR]

In most cases, these are pre-FTL advancing to spacefaring.

They changed it so that Early Space Age are guaranteed to become spacefaring within a certain time frame, and Atomic Age is also quick to follow.
Observing them also mostly has events to increase their tech era by one.

Additionally, the AI is likely to hand over the system to the new spacefaring empire, even if it is their capital or only colonized system.