Would an "Anarchy" government type work for this game?

[Pizza_0786]

Idea would be to have an anarchic council getting re-ordered through "Anarchic elections" from your factions in random intervals, no officials and no class ranking between pops with planets self-governing in small groups, otherwise a complete council replacement as seen with gestalts at the moment in a way that would reflect the local self-government inherent to anarchy

Not sure if this should have impact on what is built on the planets, crime and fleet movements, but I'm open for discussion on how this would work in the hypothetical scenario of an anarchy DLC.

[mss73055]

How does the anarchy council prove they're not the ones in charge?

[arronax06]

With the current game, the closest I can imagine would be a Megacorp with the Worker Cooperative civic, that almost negates the distinction between rulers, specialists and workers, since they can change category very quickly. Also, I'd say an anarchy "government" shouldn't have any council, maybe by using the Enclave councillor instead, as outside consultants. Other than that, it might be difficult to implement in this game :)

[Pizza_0786]

Originally posted by mss73055:

How does the anarchy council prove they're not the ones in charge?

Good question, that would be the biggest design challenge about anarchy as anarchy from a conceptual standpoint has no centralised government, however the council is an integral part of the games mechanics (for now). One could try go get rid of the council in its entirety, not even giving an equivalent like the hive mind gets (since anarchy is the opposite of a hive mind), but there would still need to be something that would accomplish the functions of the council in terms of game mechanics... I am unsure how that could be solved...

[Pizza_0786]

Originally posted by arronax06:

With the current game, the closest I can imagine would be a Megacorp with the Worker Cooperative civic, that almost negates the distinction between rulers, specialists and workers, since they can change category very quickly. Also, I'd say an anarchy "government" shouldn't have any council, maybe by using the Enclave councillor instead, as outside consultants. Other than that, it might be difficult to implement in this game :)

True that, however I think a true anarchy, even if only as NPCs, would be an interesting addition. However, it would require some form of council replacement similar but opposite to gestalts to function - and while its interactions on the galactic stage would be highly interesting, I don't know how they would need to be implemented for a functional anarchic civilisation made of self-governing parts...

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

True that, however I think a true anarchy

It it was true anarchy you wouldn't have a council nor a empire to begin with. Anarchy is by definition "a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems."

So you will have to make compromises somewhere.

[Pizza_0786]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

True that, however I think a true anarchy

It it was true anarchy you wouldn't have a council nor a empire to begin with. Anarchy is by definition "a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems."

So you will have to make compromises somewhere.

True, though an anarchic nation would still be capable of existing if they are able to organise well enough to reach FTL travel without any formal authority...

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

True, though an anarchic nation would still be capable of existing if they are able to organise well enough to reach FTL travel without any formal authority...

Might wanna define what anarchy means for you. Because informal authority is still authority, thus the exact opposite of anarchy. Anarchy is no authority at all.

[Pizza_0786]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

True, though an anarchic nation would still be capable of existing if they are able to organise well enough to reach FTL travel without any formal authority...

Might wanna define what anarchy means for you. Because informal authority is still authority, thus the exact opposite of anarchy. Anarchy is no authority at all.

Enough organisation to reach FTL travel and colonise other planets to gain map presence, no governing authority. "Capable of reaching the stars" is the bare minimum any concept needs for this game.

[Pizza_0786]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

True, though an anarchic nation would still be capable of existing if they are able to organise well enough to reach FTL travel without any formal authority...

Might wanna define what anarchy means for you. Because informal authority is still authority, thus the exact opposite of anarchy. Anarchy is no authority at all.

No authority, but still capable of reaching the stars, weather that be through small self-governing groups, open access to blueprints and ressources necessarry for individuals to build space ships or any other means for an anarchy without a centralised government to reach the stars.

I'd be ok with the loosest definition of anarchy as "No centralised government" but groups still self-governing within the "empire", but less government is closer to the goal.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

True, though an anarchic nation would still be capable of existing if they are able to organise well enough to reach FTL travel without any formal authority...

If you want to look at actual political theories for game-suggestion inspirations, I'd recommend taking a look at "anarcho-syndicalism." It was a real life political movement that many respected philosophers and scholars were part of and which had real suggestions for how to incorporate anti-hierarchical practices into existing government structures.

[Pizza_0786]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

True, though an anarchic nation would still be capable of existing if they are able to organise well enough to reach FTL travel without any formal authority...

If you want to look at actual political theories for game-suggestion inspirations, I'd recommend taking a look at "anarcho-syndicalism." It was a real life political movement that many respected philosophers and scholars were part of and which had real suggestions for how to incorporate anti-hierarchical practices into existing government structures.

Huh... I'd need to look into this, but it sounds like what one would need to make an "anarchy" government type work in this game...

Edit: Yeah, missed the mark, but goes in the right direction... though I'd prefere it further away from megacorp as it still seems organised by economy.

However, the goal of an anarchist society that matches the material needs of each member as described in anarcho-syndicalism seems like it might be a civic for anarchist governments - maybe different forms of anarchy as mutually exclusive civics for the anarchist government types?

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

Enough organisation to reach FTL travel and colonise other planets to gain map presence, no governing authority. "Capable of reaching the stars" is the bare minimum any concept needs for this game.

To be fair to arronax06 that sounds a lot like a megacorp. A bunch of organisations (corporations) that dissolved the government and took control of their world.

Throw in some stuff like the "Private Prospectors" civic (private contractors colonize worlds) and Worker Cooperative (rulers are replaced with stewards) to make it less authoritarian.

[Pizza_0786]

To clarify: Right now we have 5 types of regular individual governments (Imperial, monarchic, oligarchic, democratic, megacorp) plus gestalt consciousness as in everyone is part of the same consciousness and only mindless drones. I'd like an anarchy-government type to be the exact opposite of a gestalt consciousness, something without central organisation.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Pizza_0786:

To clarify: Right now we have 5 types of regular individual governments (Imperial, monarchic, oligarchic, democratic, megacorp) plus gestalt consciousness as in everyone is part of the same consciousness and only mindless drones. I'd like an anarchy-government type to be the exact opposite of a gestalt consciousness, something without central organisation.

How would that work? Since the player agency represents the central organisation? It would either just be for flare (nothing wrong with that off course) or be... automatic? *shrugs*

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

It it was true anarchy you wouldn't have a council nor a empire to begin with. Anarchy is by definition "a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems."

Anarchism is a pretty old political idea, as opposed to monarchy, or the traditional democracies being more akin to oligarchies.

So instead of "one ruler" which the word monarchy means, you have "no ruler" with anarchy.
This was actually a pretty relevant movement some while back in the 19th century.

For example, the french labour union CGT has its roots in the anarchist movement. And that really shows until today by its radicalism and intransigence.

The assassination of the Habsburg crown prince which triggered World War I - allegedly done by a follower of the anarchist movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism


Of course we associate the word "Anarchy" with drunk punks and hooligans having street fights, warlords running rampant in Somalia, Mad Max, and stuff like that.