3.6 Orion update brings huge buffs to psionic ascension

[Mr.I]

The new ascension patch allows spiritualist empires to access psionic much earlier. I got psionic awakening at year 2232 without rushing unity or picking mind over matter as first ascension perk and that is insane.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2874758473

And now psionic empires can do mass assimilation too, psionic ascension has become so incredibly powerful. And psi corps got buffed too.

Psionic has been my favorite for years and now it's the only thing I need. Time to dismantle those filthy machines.

[pepsigamer02]

how is the encomenoplos change an indirect nerf? Psi empires can build robots to? Its marginal nerf at most

[Gundalf]

They could maybe make the cloning vats availble per standart technology so that psionics can use it. Bio would still have the new effficent cloning tradition which doubles it output and synth and cyber should prefer robot production facilities.

Also they could make the 20% bonus output from telepaths a direct bonus to the psionic trait. And if they want to continue to use them as a job type simply make them a slightly superior version of enforcers which replaces them, like with burocrats and priests.

[Gundalf]

pepsigamer02님이 먼저 게시:

how is the encomenoplos change an indirect nerf? Psi empires can build robots to? Its marginal nerf at most

Because they have by far the worst robots as you run into problems if you research synths or sapiet combat computers as you could trigger machine uprising and spiritualist lack the best option to solve it. So staying at droids is often the safest option for them.

[CrUsHeR]

pepsigamer02님이 먼저 게시:

you neglect to mention psi corps now gives psi pops a 20% flat output bonus...

Problem with that - it takes up a building slot, and pops have to work the jobs too. So you need at least 5 buildings for the 20% bonus to be worth it (in the live patch 10 buildings). More if the jobs already receive other bonuses (like researchers from stacked techs and traits)

While the Synths get 25% minimum to everything out of the box (including refinery jobs etc) and are much more numerous due to double pop assembly.

Take an ecumenopolis, you typically get something like 10-15 monthly pop growth with immigration there. Psionic empires are capped at around 2.3 robot assembly in addition to that, synths get something like 12+


Chosen admiral trait is irrelevant if the synth empire gets so much stronger fleets from snowballing eco/tech levels

[BigTurnip]

CrUsHeR님이 먼저 게시:

Not sure what else the patch brings, but the current psionics would need a HUGE buff to be anywhere near competetive.



For instance, all the negative shroud outcomes have to go. The whole ascension path is already a lot worse even with zroni precursors and one of the boons, but with a curse you just feel cheated over your playtime. Currently it makes it an unnecessary "hard mode" where you gimp yourself in an unpleasant, masochistic way.

The "Chosen One" seems like a nice gimmick with very minimal impact, but is already useless if you play a democracy or autocracy and he is not even a candidate.
And if the outcome suggests "green" chance then see the previous point (remove unnecessary bad outcomes aka your perfect leader dies)

The pop bonuses are already the worst, but you also don't get any form of pop growth, habitability, leader lifespan or whatever else gives the edge to bio or rather synth ascension in particular. 10% energy from jobs doesn't really make sense, for a "tall" kind of empire with low pop growth i'd rather see trade value making a difference (psychic stock market prediction and all).

Psionic ship weapons just don't cut it, example if you already have the AI ship computer then the psionic one is a downgrade. Shields are nice but are just shields, can be bypassed entirely and some star types disable them. And IIRC you cannot even equip them on smaller ships unless you also have dark matter power from FEs. And you need Zro to build which may not even be available.

Regarding pop management, it is the same like bio ascension where you never see the end of gene-modding projects and adjusting species rights. And lacks the perfect convience of simply assimilating everyone into your main synth species.

I understand that they wanted this as some kind of "large risk, large reward" but right now it is just the sucky reward causing more frustation than enjoyment.

Oh look someone who hasn't played the beta.

Pretty much everything you said isn't true.

I mean they get 35% pop output and 45% research output and insanity unity output.

Also why are you growing pops, you conquer pops assimilate them and bang 35% pop output.

Also they rule Arcologies thanks to there 70% ascension buff.

[CrUsHeR]

BigTurnip님이 먼저 게시:

Oh look someone who hasn't played the beta.

Pretty much everything you said isn't true.

I mean they get 35% pop output and 45% research output and insanity unity output.

Also why are you growing pops, you conquer pops assimilate them and bang 35% pop output.

Also they rule Arcologies thanks to there 70% ascension buff.

No idea how you get those numbers. I read this https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/stellaris-dev-diary-270-traditional-results-of-summer-experiments.1545411/


Prionics get:

10% unity instead of 10% energy from jobs (nice but you can't eat or shoot or trade unity)

2 Telepaths give 10% output to psionic pops each (so this doesn't affect robots and synths, and you probably still can't assimilate cyborg pops)




Main problem with the telepaths is pointed out above already - planets and build slots are limited. Let's say you get +60% research output from tech, 10% from psionic and 10% from the Intelligent trait.

So you already produce 180% research from jobs, and the 20% bonus from the psi corp would only stack on top of that.


For simplicity's sake, we'll assume that all researchers in a building produce 10 research points.
With the 80% bonuses from above they produce 18.
Adding a psi corp building increases this to 20.


If we have 5 research buildings, we produce 18*5 = 90 research. Adding a psi corps would only increase this by 2*5 = 10, so adding another research building for 18 instead would be almost twice as good for the planetary production.

If we have 9 research buildings, we produce 18*9 = 162 research. Adding a psi corp would increase this by 2*9 = 18


So that would be the threshold for a psi corp to be better than a research complex, not counting additional bonuses like from planet type/specialization, traits, events and such.

Obvious problem is that planets only have a total of 11 possible build slots, some of them always occupied by infrastructure (holo theatres etc)



Don't know why you say that you don't grow pops in this game, that's about the dumbest statement in the stellaris forum history. Even with Driven Assimilators you care about pop growth until late in the game.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

OP has never played this game in Iron mode, otherwise it is simply impossible not to notice the psi-assimilation option in 1000 hours of play. If you really want to, then you can open the console and give yourself a bunch of points to become a psionicist in 2001, if you really want to rush

[Mr.I]

Static-ghost님이 먼저 게시:

OP has never played this game in Iron mode, otherwise it is simply impossible not to notice the psi-assimilation option in 1000 hours of play. If you really want to, then you can open the console and give yourself a bunch of points to become a psionicist in 2001, if you really want to rush

Yeah, that's right. I've never played ironman mode and I have 0 achievement. But that's not the reason for cheating. I know you've checked my steam profile, so you must've seen that I played a lot e-sport games, and I absolutely hate cheating and cheaters.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

Mr.I님이 먼저 게시:

you must've seen that I played a lot e-sport games, and I absolutely hate cheating and cheaters

Are you talking about Dota 2? This and CS:GO are probably the only games on Steam that I will never launch even under psionic control

[Mr.I]

Static-ghost님이 먼저 게시:

Are you talking about Dota 2? This and CS:GO are probably the only games on Steam that I will never launch even under psionic control :Uranium: :2017stickycrab:

I'm talking about you should stop telling me to use console to cheat.

[Mr.I]

Mr.I님이 먼저 게시:

Gundalf님이 먼저 게시:

Psionic assimilation is a living standart for non main species pops.

Also the Ecumopolis changes are an indirect nerf to psionics as the the +25% growth and assembly speed is far worse then +50% growth. While bio, cyborg and synth are fa less affected since they have great assembly options.

Thanks, I'll switch back to 3.5 after I finish the current 3.6 game and see it.

Uh, I figured it out. I've been living under the rock for more than 1000 hours.

I'm humiliated. -10 happiness.

[adobo]

Psionic is the greatest leader buff among ascensions. And that telepath bonus isn't just research, its for ALL resource output. Put that in an ecumenopolis and watch as alloy and unity go brrrrr. Then ascend those ecumenopolis for more output per pop.

Now use those alloys to build a fleet and have a psionic general or even the chosen one to lead a crusade against all the robosexuals. You can even pass laws to screw over robot production so pop growth via robots is irrelevant. Pop growth is only important relative to everyone else. Not being able to grow pops with robots doesn't matter if everyone gets penalties to growing pops with robots.