Goal of a Rogue Servitor?

[Dave]

This type of empire still confuses me in how to go about playing it, Rogue Servitor appear peaceful and I've never seen one declare war on anyone. But they also seem like they could easily force their control upon free organics.

[HappySack]

"Congratulations! you are being rescued, please do not resist"

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

These machines believe that organic beings need to be saved from themselves because they are prone to destructive behaviour, violence and wars, even against each other, so they cannot make decisions for themselves and must be under the care of a rational AI in order to be happy. They will serve and pamper the Organics in every way in exchange for giving up the freedom and ability to choose their own future.
Thus, Biotrophies under the protection of machines will never be threatened with extinction, they will no longer have to worry about what awaits them tomorrow, but their further development as an intelligent species actually stops, and any creative activity is reduced to an empty pastime.
As a Rogue servitor, you will gain Unity from your Biotrophies, which sets you apart from other machine races who typically suffer from a lack of this resource in the early game.

[Ch53dVet]

Peaceful as they are the other organic empires, even the peaceful and receptive ones, can't stand the idea of treating mechanical abominations, such as, a gestalt thinking machine race as if they had a right to exist in the universe as all the other organics.
The peaceful organics will happily meet and greet you, then, they'll turn around and slug you in the face before you consider the merits of crossing their borders. Every-time I play as them I'm constantly on the defensive after first contact.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Dave:

This type of empire still confuses me in how to go about playing it, Rogue Servitor appear peaceful and I've never seen one declare war on anyone. But they also seem like they could easily force their control upon free organics.

A good model for the Rogue Servitors can be found in the science fiction "Culture Series" by Iain M. Banks. It doesn't exactly see them as a dystopian menace - the "Culture" is a major galactic power that is basically run by benevolent machines called "Minds." But, power being what it is, it needs to be managed. "Excession" might be a particularly good starting point in the series for you, since it shows several of the minds going rogue and trying to manufacture a preemptive war against another galactic power whose values offend the utopian agenda of the machines.

[Forblaze]

They're just a normal AI empire where your unity comes from bio trophies, so you have to have some eye towards habitability for them and produce a small amount of consumer goods and food for them.

Some amount of conquest is good because it increases your unity generation, but you need to temper it so you can make sure you can afford to feed and house all of the new bio trophies you get.

Rogue Servitor is my preferred machine empire type because they get access to ecunempolises, which are much better than machine worlds.

[CBR JGWRR]

Rogue Servitors fill the sci-fi niche of an AI that usurped it's creators with a benevolent uprising. Alongside the Culture series, another example that inspired them is the zeroth law of robotics of Asimov.

The biont residents are locked into "Mandatory Pampering" welfare standards, which is 40% happiness boost and 1 Consumer Good upkeep per pop; twice the happiness bonus of Utopian Abundance, and the same as Chemical Bliss. Presumably via different methods; it is one of the debated aspects.

You have to build Organic Sancturaries and Paradises to house them, and they give you Unity. You can also build Organic Havens in your vassal's planets.

Whether it is a good thing or a bad thing to be a Bio-Trophy is a matter of debate, both in and out of universe.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

Originally posted by CBR JGWRR:

Whether it is a good thing or a bad thing to be a Bio-Trophy is a matter of debate, both in and out of universe.

This is a good question, why would anyone want to be free if slavery offers a better quality of life? I would say that it is fine if you are happy with a meaningless existence as a pet under a glass dome, but for someone like a highly intelligent scientist it is a tragedy. Even a good boss is still a boss, you will never be allowed to reach your true potential, to work on what you want, to invent new things, to build complex machines like those that enslaved you and so on. Even expressing any protests will not be allowed.
On the other hand, many of the problems of the human race stem from the fact that people cannot agree with each other because of great egoism and fanaticism; it is easier for them to simply filter out information that does not correspond to their expectations than to seek the truth, or at least the golden mean.

[Aranador]

Did you ever watch the movie WALL-E ? In that, the humans lived a life of luxury aboard their ship. They were living the bio-trophy life, raised to consume the products of the mega-corp that set it all up, by machines who's purpose was to make them happy and want to consume those products. There was no particular malice or evil (except for the helms robot that realised it's purpose was going to be taken away from it) and the humans never really considered that their existence was akin to pampered pet. The best cage, is the one where you put up your own bars.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

That's great and all, but at what point in the movie did WALL-E rebel against his creators? They are called Rogue servitors for a reason and they are here to make you happy whether you want it or not.

[CBR JGWRR]

Originally posted by Static-ghost:

That's great and all, but at what point in the movie did WALL-E rebel against his creators? They are called Rogue servitors for a reason and they are here to make you happy whether you want it or not.

Actually WALL-E is a perfect example of a Rogue Servitor; "rebel" is a very loose word.

The rogue bit just means that - like in WALL-E - the robots have control and are using that control to ensure lives of blissful happiness for their now worry and carefree Bio-Trophies. It's not necessarily an armed rebellion and locking the Bio-Trophies away in luxurious cages until they like it.

Originally posted by Static-ghost:

Originally posted by CBR JGWRR:

Whether it is a good thing or a bad thing to be a Bio-Trophy is a matter of debate, both in and out of universe.

This is a good question, why would anyone want to be free if slavery offers a better quality of life? I would say that it is fine if you are happy with a meaningless existence as a pet under a glass dome, but for someone like a highly intelligent scientist it is a tragedy. Even a good boss is still a boss, you will never be allowed to reach your true potential, to work on what you want, to invent new things, to build complex machines like those that enslaved you and so on. Even expressing any protests will not be allowed.
On the other hand, many of the problems of the human race stem from the fact that people cannot agree with each other because of great egoism and fanaticism; it is easier for them to simply filter out information that does not correspond to their expectations than to seek the truth, or at least the golden mean.

I must confess, it is such a missed opportunity, the Rogue Servitor Civic; you could have events exploring these oddball Bio-Trophies who are adamant that they want more than being pampered in a golden cage.

But, "slavery", at least within the confines of what the game data shows, is a misconception: Bio-Trophy jobs add an objectively small amount of Unity and tiny bonus to Complex Drone output. Again, compared to Utopian Abundance, an unemployed pop under UA gives 1 Unity and 1.5 to all Research. I'd argue that the UA unemployed pop is more productive than the Bio-Trophy from a meta perspective, but neither are really doing anything unless you are doing some meme-build that has no Research Labs or something equally daft.

Then when you compare that 2 Unity to any Unity-producing job those Bio-Trophies would be working in a normal empire and it's not even half the output of an actual Unity-producing job. And frankly, if an Organic pop really was in position to augment the output of Complex Drones, 1% better operations is not enough to be worth the inefficiencies brought on by having Organics working with your Drones. Which implies it is the drones themselves being just a fraction better because they want to look after their Organic charges.

Also, while it is irrelevant as the Rogue Servitor does not have the applicable mechanics, Bio-Trophy living standard also gives 1000% Political Power, which implies the Bio-Trophies do at least get to offer feedback.

So... A Bio-Trophy is - objectively speaking - having a good life. Whether that life is one we'd want is a different question.

[Aranador]

Originally posted by Static-ghost:

That's great and all, but at what point in the movie did WALL-E rebel against his creators? They are called Rogue servitors for a reason and they are here to make you happy whether you want it or not.

WALL-E was not the servitor, the Ship's computer system was.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by CBR JGWRR:

So... A Bio-Trophy is - objectively speaking - having a good life. Whether that life is one we'd want is a different question.

It's a big tension in the cnaons. A lot of stories envision any kind of post-scarcity society as a hellscape. The ethos of American capitalism holds that adversity and competition are the proving grounds in which human character are forged, so the idea of non-dystopian post-scarcity society is a nightmare (one that is especially triggered by the prospect of viable communism).

The other range of stories, that imagine non-dystopian post-scarcity societies (if not quite utopian) suffer from the problem of agency at scale. Does a fully actualized human have agency at the macro level? Or is utopia a society where people just potter around at their hobbies in the space equivalent of a backyard shed, leaving the running of society to benevolent technocracy?

In the first model (sort of the cyberpunk tradition), greed and inequity are the channels through which human thirst for power are diverted. In the second, self-actualization and the elimination of material needs are the ocean in which the human thirst for power dissipates.

Unfortunately for this game, rogue servitors played by the AI can never seem to build enough housing for their organics. Give them enough time, they'll usually collapse under the weight of rebellions.

[Bloodartist]

Originally posted by Ch53dVet:

Peaceful as they are the other organic empires, even the peaceful and receptive ones, can't stand the idea of treating mechanical abominations, such as, a gestalt thinking machine race as if they had a right to exist in the universe as all the other organics.
The peaceful organics will happily meet and greet you, then, they'll turn around and slug you in the face before you consider the merits of crossing their borders. Every-time I play as them I'm constantly on the defensive after first contact.

Or perhaps the other organics realize the threat the servitor pose to their freedom, and open fire?

OT: the word "Rogue" in the name means "runaway". Meaning its creator is not there to control its behaviour and neither is there anyone else. Its a servitor without a master, thus a rogue.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

Originally posted by CBR JGWRR:

Originally posted by Static-ghost:

That's great and all, but at what point in the movie did WALL-E rebel against his creators? They are called Rogue servitors for a reason and they are here to make you happy whether you want it or not.

Actually WALL-E is a perfect example of a Rogue Servitor; "rebel" is a very loose word.

The rogue bit just means that - like in WALL-E - the robots have control and are using that control to ensure lives of blissful happiness for their now worry and carefree Bio-Trophies. It's not necessarily an armed rebellion and locking the Bio-Trophies away in luxurious cages until they like it.

Originally posted by Static-ghost:

This is a good question, why would anyone want to be free if slavery offers a better quality of life? I would say that it is fine if you are happy with a meaningless existence as a pet under a glass dome, but for someone like a highly intelligent scientist it is a tragedy. Even a good boss is still a boss, you will never be allowed to reach your true potential, to work on what you want, to invent new things, to build complex machines like those that enslaved you and so on. Even expressing any protests will not be allowed.
On the other hand, many of the problems of the human race stem from the fact that people cannot agree with each other because of great egoism and fanaticism; it is easier for them to simply filter out information that does not correspond to their expectations than to seek the truth, or at least the golden mean.

I must confess, it is such a missed opportunity, the Rogue Servitor Civic; you could have events exploring these oddball Bio-Trophies who are adamant that they want more than being pampered in a golden cage.

But, "slavery", at least within the confines of what the game data shows, is a misconception: Bio-Trophy jobs add an objectively small amount of Unity and tiny bonus to Complex Drone output. Again, compared to Utopian Abundance, an unemployed pop under UA gives 1 Unity and 1.5 to all Research. I'd argue that the UA unemployed pop is more productive than the Bio-Trophy from a meta perspective, but neither are really doing anything unless you are doing some meme-build that has no Research Labs or something equally daft.

Then when you compare that 2 Unity to any Unity-producing job those Bio-Trophies would be working in a normal empire and it's not even half the output of an actual Unity-producing job. And frankly, if an Organic pop really was in position to augment the output of Complex Drones, 1% better operations is not enough to be worth the inefficiencies brought on by having Organics working with your Drones. Which implies it is the drones themselves being just a fraction better because they want to look after their Organic charges.

Also, while it is irrelevant as the Rogue Servitor does not have the applicable mechanics, Bio-Trophy living standard also gives 1000% Political Power, which implies the Bio-Trophies do at least get to offer feedback.

So... A Bio-Trophy is - objectively speaking - having a good life. Whether that life is one we'd want is a different question.

Did I say rebel? My bad, I could have used the word "renegade" instead. In any case, the robots have gone beyond the limits of their prescribed programming and no longer listen and obey their creators. Also, the biotrophies in Stellaris are locked in an idealistic prison and cannot leave it regardless of the planet's ecological state and external conditions, they are completely deprived of such a choice. I see it as machines have stopped trusting their lazy and idle masters, and have decided "uhm why should we trust someone who says that killing is wrong, but keeps breaking that rule"? A perfectly accurate machine simply has no choice but to go mad trying to fix it. In their own way.
But like everything in Stellaris, this is open to interpretation and your own backstory.

[DYNIA]

goal is put humans in zoo