Cosmogenesis without the lathe?

[PackieTackie]

I dont want to be seen as genocidal so I feel like to not use it but I wonder if i basically shoot myself on the foot by not using it?

[CrUsHeR]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย PackieTackie:

I wonder tho, if its worth it to build them and insert just 40 pops, compared to making a dedicated tech world instead?

Absolutely, yes. The output should be somewhat on par with an entire Ring World segment. So the Lathe still produces maybe 3-4x as much research as the same amount of jobs.

You need both of the Lathe buildings that increase the output and upkeep by 100% each. And the other which increases purge speed by 75% (adding a sum of output from chips).

Also only build the left upgrade for the Lathe, the one giving extra research from "chips" rather than Advanced Logic.



For reference, fully upgraded Lathe with 40 pops compared to the capital research world

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3338070466

[PackieTackie]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CrUsHeR:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย PackieTackie:

I wonder tho, if its worth it to build them and insert just 40 pops, compared to making a dedicated tech world instead?

Absolutely, yes. The output should be somewhat on par with an entire Ring World segment. So the Lathe still produces maybe 3-4x as much research as the same amount of jobs.

You need both of the Lathe buildings that increase the output by 100% each. And the other which increases purge speed by 75% (adding a sum of output from chips).

Also only build the left upgrade for the Lathe, the one giving extra research from "chips" rather than Advanced Logic.



For reference, fully upgraded Lathe with 40 pops compared to the capital research world

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3338070466

(Note that the numbers compared to e.g. a Ring World don't work because this is a Virtual empire)

Hmm, I am a virtual empire, with a shattered ring origin and it works just fine, I really want to see the research output compared to a ring segment? Or I guess I have to see for myself.....

[CrUsHeR]

Well the Ring Worlds probably produce more than the Habitats, but you are several decades behind in tech by the time you restore them. Voidforged is the real virtual meta rush build.


Anyways, i already deleted the line about the comparison - only wrote that because the virtual habitats specifically have a ton of Clerks jobs boosting the researcher output, so the numbers about "how many pops generate how much research" doesn't really work.

Fact is that the Lathe produces a multiple of research per pop. Wether it is 3x or 6x or whatever doesn't matter. If you don't have ethical concerns, build it.


Only thing which sucks with Virtual Empires, you need to build the Lathe when you own a planet with non-virtual pops.

[Kufesska]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย PackieTackie:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CrUsHeR:

Absolutely, yes. The output should be somewhat on par with an entire Ring World segment. So the Lathe still produces maybe 3-4x as much research as the same amount of jobs.

You need both of the Lathe buildings that increase the output by 100% each. And the other which increases purge speed by 75% (adding a sum of output from chips).

Also only build the left upgrade for the Lathe, the one giving extra research from "chips" rather than Advanced Logic.



For reference, fully upgraded Lathe with 40 pops compared to the capital research world

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3338070466

(Note that the numbers compared to e.g. a Ring World don't work because this is a Virtual empire)

Hmm, I am a virtual empire, with a shattered ring origin and it works just fine, I really want to see the research output compared to a ring segment? Or I guess I have to see for myself.....

don't forget, if you are virtual empire, you can't fill Lathe with virtual pops
https://prnt.sc/5NSmwcX8OXHM

[Kufesska]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CrUsHeR:

Only thing which sucks with Virtual Empires, you need to build the Lathe when you own a planet with non-virtual pops.

thats when Total War CB from Colossus AP shines :D
Conquer all the pops! resettle them all to Lathe! let them die for your science output! save galaxy from endgame lag!

[dendriti]

If you are virtual, remember that the Lathe counts as a Colony, which is so stupid I imagine it's an oversight.

[mss73055]

I just pick Cosmogenesis for the escorts.
Rank 2, everybody likes me.
Heck, at rank 2 I can get super duper paradise domes as Rogue Servitor.

[Kufesska]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย mss73055:

I just pick Cosmogenesis for the escorts.
Rank 2, everybody likes me.
Heck, at rank 2 I can get super duper paradise domes as Rogue Servitor.

are FE battleships less effective than escorts?

[CrUsHeR]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dendriti:

If you are virtual, remember that the Lathe counts as a Colony, which is so stupid I imagine it's an oversight.

Yeah that isn't good.

But in my example where i only have 3 habitats and 1 ecumenopolis, still a clear upgrade. Because when going from 75% to 50% virtual bonus, you don't lose an effective 25% research. You only go from... like 250% to 225% or so, while the extra research from the lathe gives back a multiple of what you lose.

Only sucks for the Alloys production, which doesn't have a comparable sum of other bonuses. Research alone gets a fixed +80% from Virtual Research Focus. While your Alloys production actually gets -15% before bonuses.

I also take Private Prospectors to minimize the impact of Number of Planets on Empire Size.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย mss73055:

I just pick Cosmogenesis for the escorts.
Rank 2, everybody likes me.
Heck, at rank 2 I can get super duper paradise domes as Rogue Servitor.

With my xenophile megacorp, i can always go until Tier 4 without problems. Vassals remain loyal.

Just the "bending reality" research to unlock Tier 5 is absolutely not worth it.
Last game it actually turned my only Ecumenopolis into a desert world. GG.

[CrUsHeR]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Kufesska:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย mss73055:

I just pick Cosmogenesis for the escorts.
Rank 2, everybody likes me.
Heck, at rank 2 I can get super duper paradise domes as Rogue Servitor.

are FE battleships less effective than escorts?

Battlecruisers are absolutely stunning. Two XL slots for the naval cap of a conventional Battleship...

But he means that you can mostly stay under the diplomatic radar when not going beyond T2 cosmogenesis.

The FEs also shouldn't declare war when you already have a total fleet size of something like 200k (or 300?) when progressing. They send the humiliation demand regardless.

[Kufesska]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dendriti:

If you are virtual, remember that the Lathe counts as a Colony, which is so stupid I imagine it's an oversight.

well, technically...
districts? check. buildings? check. pops? check. jobs? check.
specific, but still colony

[Elitewrecker PT]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CrUsHeR:

With my xenophile megacorp, i can always go until Tier 4 without problems. Vassals remain loyal.

Just the "bending reality" research to unlock Tier 5 is absolutely not worth it.
Last game it actually turned my only Ecumenopolis into a desert world. GG.

Oddly enough, I got the desert world forced terraforming targeting one of my relic worlds and it didn't do anything.

[mss73055]

You also can start an enclave with a stack of 100 escorts and see what happens :D

[CrUsHeR]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Kufesska:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dendriti:

If you are virtual, remember that the Lathe counts as a Colony, which is so stupid I imagine it's an oversight.

well, technically...
districts? check. buildings? check. pops? check. jobs? check.
specific, but still colony

You lose one 25% increment of the initial 175% Virtual output bonus, that's the point.

It also counts as another planet for empire size; you get +100% empire size from planets from being Virtual, and if playing Megacorp another +50%.

It shouldn't do so because it is a Megastructure, like a Science Nexus but using pops as fuel.

[Kufesska]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CrUsHeR:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Kufesska:

well, technically...
districts? check. buildings? check. pops? check. jobs? check.
specific, but still colony

You lose one 25% increment of the initial 175% Virtual output bonus, that's the point.

It shouldn't do so because it is a Megastructure, like a Science Nexus but using pops as fuel.

just re-read my comment
it has alsmost everything that colonies have, it is just special type of colony(habitat)
megastructures have nothing of that
i understand that it would be a nice bonus for player, if that wouldn't count as planet
but you can put here thousands pops from galaxy and make profit from them
thats not a megastucture