Proposing Subjugation shouldn't cost influence

[Benalar]

So apparently I didn't pay enough attention reading the patch notes. I was assuming I would get a subjugation CB when they decline my proposal, but that is no longer the case.
So I wasted 350 influence on a subjugation proposal, which they simply declined and that's it. What exactly did I pay for here?
The cost really shouldn't be subtracted unless the other empire accepts.

[Radene]

It should cost you influence to propose. It should cost them the same amount of influence to reject.

Cost should be tuned a bit tho yes.

[DaAndMan]

did you know the ai has to pay that same influence to decline it and if they dont have the influence it forces them to accept the contract

[Benalar]

Wait a minute, that means I could be a super powerful mega-empire, but if some one-planet guys saved up enough influence and I just happened to spent mine, they could instantly vassalize me with no way to decline or fight back? That sounds absolutely ridiculous.
It seems there are a whole lot of mechanics about subjugation that Paradox still has to work out..

[Ryika]

Benalar a écrit :

Wait a minute, that means I could be a super powerful mega-empire, but if some one-planet guys saved up enough influence and I just happened to spent mine, they could instantly vassalize me with no way to decline or fight back? That sounds absolutely ridiculous.
It seems there are a whole lot of mechanics about subjugation that Paradox still has to work out..

No, declining a subjugation request is free.

Changes to an existing subject contract cost influence to decline.

Benalar a écrit :

So I wasted 350 influence on a subjugation proposal, which they simply declined and that's it. What exactly did I pay for here?

For an important lesson learned. Don't propose subjugation if the tooltip says they will decline.

Subjugation casus belli is now granted automatically when you are sufficiently more powerful than the other party.

[Benalar]

Ryika a écrit :

No, declining a subjugation request is free.

Changes to an existing subject contract cost influence to decline.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

I still hate these new mechanics very much. I really wanted to go for a strong military empire that forces everyone around me to give me their research and resources. But apparently I need to be stronger in all aspects (that's how I interpret the tooltip), which will never happen if I focus on military instead of the usual growth/tech approach.
I guess I'm giving up on subjugation for now, and hope for some changes in the coming patches.

[Ryika]

Yeah, unfortunately that's not really a viable playstyle early on, unless you're on a low difficulty that's easy for you.

What you can do is to start with a militarist approach, conquer your closest neighbors, and then use the total strength of your empire to power through the technologies. From that point onward, you should be able to start proper subjugation wars against the rest of the galaxy.

But either way, I'd wait until the next hotfix, since vassals in general aren't all that useful right now.