Why does the ai always ally up against me?

[Roderick]

For one week now I try to play this game. At first I lost against my neighbor. Just came over and took a big part of my empire after crushing my fleet. No problem, I am learning. But though I am getting better, it doesn't change anything. Second last game four neighbours ganged up against me. Last game I thought myself really got, going fast, got a fleet, set one ambassedor to get good relations with my strongest neighbor.
Forget it, three others got allied before I got a single conract running and came for anhilation. They didn't make a claim on any system, they didn't send an insult. They just said "Hey, we have some transporters with us and we are going for all your worlds.". I had a military power of roughly 3500 and those three 5000.

Is it mandatory to loose and get pummeld at the start of the game?

[Black_Rat]

the ai wants to survive just as much as you do. Make your own alliances.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by Black_Rat:

the ai wants to survive just as much as you do. Make your own alliances.

"Forget it, three others got allied before I got a single conract running and came for anhilation."
First: I didn't threat them in any way, so that is a weak reason.
Second: I tried. "Last game I thought myself really got, going fast, got a fleet, set one ambassedor to get good relations with my strongest neighbor."

[Doctor Zalgo]

Originally posted by Roderick:

Originally posted by Black_Rat:

the ai wants to survive just as much as you do. Make your own alliances.

"Forget it, three others got allied before I got a single conract running and came for anhilation."
First: I didn't threat them in any way, so that is a weak reason.
Second: I tried. "Last game I thought myself really got, going fast, got a fleet, set one ambassedor to get good relations with my strongest neighbor."

Build more science ships.

[Antearz]

Originally posted by Roderick:

For one week now I try to play this game. At first I lost against my neighbor. Just came over and took a big part of my empire after crushing my fleet. No problem, I am learning. But though I am getting better, it doesn't change anything. Second last game four neighbours ganged up against me. Last game I thought myself really got, going fast, got a fleet, set one ambassedor to get good relations with my strongest neighbor.
Forget it, three others got allied before I got a single conract running and came for anhilation. They didn't make a claim on any system, they didn't send an insult. They just said "Hey, we have some transporters with us and we are going for all your worlds.". I had a military power of roughly 3500 and those three 5000.

Is it mandatory to loose and get pummeld at the start of the game?

Nope.
Good Players will actually usually take over 1 or 2 AIs in Early Game.

But in your case its likely that You lack the Basics.

1.
Honestly Said. You should Aim to have a Larger Fleet than most Your AI Neighbors Early on.
I know that its Tempting to just keep Investing everything into more Minerals and Energy to Build up the Economy. Thus Neglecting the Alloy Production.
And Building Trade and other Bonuses on Starbases is also much more Tempting than Building Docks to have more Fleet Capacity.
But Alloys and Fleet Capacity are Importand. Because the more Powerful You are. The less likely AI Players are to even try Attacking You.
The AI tries to Survive and Strife. If You are Weak they will Pick on You.
If You are Strong they will keep away or even Submit to You.
So Always make sure that You Increase Alloy Production and Fleet Capacity.


2.
Also Build Fleet Early. Having High Alloy Production alone wont do anything after all.
Many New Players make the Mistake to go all in on Economy Early.
Often only having the 3 Starting Corvettes for Years into the Game.
But Filling your Fleet Capacity gives additional Influence to Expand your Empire as well as allowing you to clear Systems earlier.
And while having alot of Alloys allows You to Quickly Build a Fleet. It still takes time.
So having a Fleet Ready helps alot when You actually need to Defend yourself.


3.
Also keep in Mind that Diplomacy is affected by alot of other Factors too.
An Determined Exterminator AI will always Attack You sooner or later.
They dont Diplomacy to any meaningful extend.
And nothing You do will make them be Peaceful.
A Pacifistic Isolationist meanwhile simply doesnt care about You. As long as You stay away from him he wont do anything.
Again others like Federation Builders are very Open to Diplomacy and will Readily Sign Defensive Pacts.
This also depends on You. If You are an Militarist Slaver. Your Neighbors might be quite Wary of You. And if Your a Dictatorship the Democracies wont like You etc.
Neither will Spiritualists like it if You are Materialist. But other Spiritualists will be more Open towards being your Friend etc.

So Check Early what Neighbors You have and what Neighbors they have.
And then Check if You can Ally with them. If You can Ignore them. Or if You should be Ready for War with them.


4.
On that Note. Also be Aware of certain Special Aspects.
If You yourself Play some sort of Crisis like a Swarm or Assimilator. People can Attack You for the Kill right away.
Likewise AIs Playing as such will also go to War for the Kill.
You Described an Annihilation War. So either You or one of Your Enemies was an Empire Capable of this Wargoal.
In such Wars. Anything Lost is Lost Immediately. It does not need to be Claimed.
But this is only possible for certain Empires or by taking certain Perks etc.

[Antearz]

Originally posted by Roderick:

Originally posted by Black_Rat:

the ai wants to survive just as much as you do. Make your own alliances.

"Forget it, three others got allied before I got a single conract running and came for anhilation."
First: I didn't threat them in any way, so that is a weak reason.
Second: I tried. "Last game I thought myself really got, going fast, got a fleet, set one ambassedor to get good relations with my strongest neighbor."

I already explained above how Diplomacy also depends on how Compatible You are with others.
Honorable Warriors for example Require quite the high Threshold before they will make a Non Aggression Pact.
Others can have a Non Aggression Pact even at Neutral Relations. :)

So just Sending an Ambassador isnt saying much.
And its hard for us to tell You what went wrong unless You show us Screenshots of the actual Empires and Relations so we can See what they tought about You and your Actions.



But some Quick Advice on how to get Peaceful Neighbors Quickly. (If Possible. A Devouring Swarm or Fanatic Purifier wont be Swayed by anything. They are always Hostile)

1.
Gifts Work Wonders.
Giving an Neighboring NPC some Ressources as a Gift when You meet them.
About 100 or so Points Worth.
Will give them a Massive Early Relations Boost. And if Paired with an Ambassador Improving Relations. Will for most AI Empires result in them being Willing to Immediately Sign a Non Aggression Pact with You.

2.
Check Your own Policies.
Standard Policy for many Empires is Expansionist or Isolationist etc.
So You get a Large Relation Penalty for having Borders to Someone.
If You instead Set it to Cooperative. It will not only Reduce the Border Friction.
It also means other Empires have to Pay Influence if they want to Harm Your Relations.

3.
Check Your Empire.
This is also Importand.
What Kind of Empire are You Playing.
If You are Playing a Machine Empire for example. Biological Races will be Scared of You.
And if You are a Spiritualist Zealot. Anyone Remotely Materialist will not be Impressed with You and Vice Versa.



On that Note.
What Empire are You Playing as :)

[Roderick]

Originally posted by Doctor Zalgo:

Build more science ships.

I do three, which is the limit of scientists, and go for the forth as soon as I have thre explorer tradition. Do I need more?

Originally posted by Antearz:

But in your case its likely that You lack the Basics.

Have a price for that amount of text. :)
Unfortunately, it is slightly off the point.

Originally posted by Antearz:

1. Honestly Said. You should Aim to have a Larger Fleet than most Your AI Neighbors Early on.

I had. Larger than ONE of my neighbours. Problem is them ganking up against me.

Originally posted by Antearz:

2. Also Build Fleet Early. Having High Alloy Production alone wont do anything after all.

I do. For one reason is that I am right now used to get attacked early and for a second reason, as you mention, it helps building up influence.

Originally posted by Antearz:

3. Also keep in Mind that Diplomacy is affected by alot of other Factors too.
...
So Check Early what Neighbors You have and what Neighbors they have.
And then Check if You can Ally with them. If You can Ignore them. Or if You should be Ready for War with them.

So I basicly can stop playing if I get a bad set of neighours...?

[Antearz]

Originally posted by Roderick:

Originally posted by Doctor Zalgo:

Build more science ships.

I do three, which is the limit of scientists, and go for the forth as soon as I have thre explorer tradition. Do I need more?

Originally posted by Antearz:

But in your case its likely that You lack the Basics.

Have a price for that amount of text. :)
Unfortunately, it is slightly off the point.

Originally posted by Antearz:

1. Honestly Said. You should Aim to have a Larger Fleet than most Your AI Neighbors Early on.

I had. Larger than ONE of my neighbours. Problem is them ganking up against me.

Originally posted by Antearz:

2. Also Build Fleet Early. Having High Alloy Production alone wont do anything after all.

I do. For one reason is that I am right now used to get attacked early and for a second reason, as you mention, it helps building up influence.

Originally posted by Antearz:

3. Also keep in Mind that Diplomacy is affected by alot of other Factors too.
...
So Check Early what Neighbors You have and what Neighbors they have.
And then Check if You can Ally with them. If You can Ignore them. Or if You should be Ready for War with them.

So I basicly can stop playing if I get a bad set of neighours...?

I Explained the Basics because I dont know how far You are.
As I said. Its hard to Judge the Exact Situation without knowing what Empire You Play and what Your Neighbors are.
So its bound to have some Stuff in it which wont Apply to You or which You already Knew ;)


As for the Question.
If by some incredible Bad Luck You ended up with 3-4 Neighbors all of Which are Military Types that Hate You.
You will have a very Difficult Start. Likely too Difficult for a New Player.
So You might want to just Restart.

An Experienced Player will usually just Kill one of his Neighbors Early to Break out. Or Bunker himself behind a Chokepoint.
Flying behind your Neighbors and Allying with further Away People behind them so that they are Drawn into a Two Front War if they Attack You also works.
But this is still a Difficult Game to Play. And as I said. If You are just Starting You might indeed Prefer to just Restart the Game.

That being said. This is a Rare case to Begin with.



The Primary Point You should be Interested remains the one about Diplomacy.

As I asked You.
What Empire Type are You Playing as in the First Place ? :)

[MΛRCUS HΞLIUS]

"Why does the ai always ally up against me?"

It could just be bad luck, but give the galaxy long enough and it will mostly be allied together, ether as vassals under the strongest empire, or as a federation.

Every single game I play, I am usually having to fight 3 or even 4 empires at the same time if I want to go to war with one of them, simply because they all have defensive pacts with each other.

If you have empires on ether side of you and they are both in defense pacts with each other, be prepared to defend your borders from one while you wage war on the other.

[Unimportant]

Originally posted by Roderick:

Forget it, three others got allied before I got a single conract running and came for anhilation.

Sound like hegemon origin.

[Razorblade]

Bordering an empire you have no diplomatic agreements with will give them an opinion malus towards you. This can be mitigated a bit by setting your "Diplomatic Stance" Policy to "Cooperative," but the best option is to just not border them at all until you're already on friendly terms.

Moreover, the AI will only attack you if they border you. You're likely expanding too aggressively, and therefore reaching their borders too early. If you want to play a highly diplomatic game, you want to keep your borders tight, and you want to make First Contact as fast as possible, so you don't accidentally expand too close to other empires too fast.

Lastly, one Envoy is not going to do very much. If you're trying to play diplomatically, you should be sending all of your Envoys to one empire, in order to get a diplomatic agreement as soon as possible. You should also consider trying to get more Envoys through Traditions, Ascension perks, Civics, and Ethics.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by Antearz:

As I said. Its hard to Judge the Exact Situation without knowing what Empire You Play and what Your Neighbors are.
So its bound to have some Stuff in it which wont Apply to You or which You already Knew ;)

An Experienced Player will usually just Kill one of his Neighbors Early to Break out. Or Bunker himself behind a Chokepoint.

That being said. This is a Rare case to Begin with.
What Empire Type are You Playing as in the First Place ? :)

I had one week off and due to bad wheather, a friend wanted to introduce me to this game he likes so much. I don't explain my empire because I played several hours a day and had different aproaches to learn different things, but all games ended up the same: Ai ganging up on me.
So, no sir, it isn't a rare case for me, it happens every time.
But I would be glad if you explain how to defend a chokepoint against double the attacking power of your entire fleet + starbase. Everyone tells me to go behind chokepoints but nobody tells me how that helps against such strong foes. Last game I had a upgraded star fortress with 18k points, more than I ever had, but two empires just allied again and came along with 35k fleet. What does a chokepoint do in that situation?

Originally posted by MΛRCUS HΞLIUS:

Every single game I play, I am usually having to fight 3 or even 4 empires at the same time if I want to go to war with one of them, simply because they all have defensive pacts with each other.

And how do you win that? I have a feeling I am missing something crucial. In games like Age of Wonders or Sins of a Solar empire I can win against higher numbers through the tactical war gameplay, since the ai isn't that smart and you can outmanouver their combat units. In Stellaris I have noticed that selfdesigned ships can give al little edge... but the battle isn't really that tactical when a fight is over within 10 seconds.

Originally posted by Razorblade:

Lastly, one Envoy is not going to do very much. If you're trying to play diplomatically, you should be sending all of your Envoys to one empire, in order to get a diplomatic agreement as soon as possible. You should also consider trying to get more Envoys through Traditions, Ascension perks, Civics, and Ethics.

I only had two envoys at that time, could have gotten a third through a tradition... and the last thing I want to do right now is going deeper in the diplomatic system. Do you have to cuddle up each time you play?

[Lasagna]

xenophiles get 1 extra envoy, 2 if fanatic, highly recommended if you want to do early diplomacy.

if you don't go hard into diplo you need to go hard into fleets to scare them off, ais usually won't declare on you unless you're significantly weaker then they are.

what difficulty are you playing on? on civilian (player gets bonuses, aka easy mode) or ensign (no player or AI gets bonuses) it should be almost impossible for the AI to build a larger fleet than you unless you seriously neglect your alloys/fleet or they are an advanced start (i personally like to turn those off).

you can also turn ai aggression down in the settings, though they will still attack you if you're significantly weaker then they are.

if you're being attacked by a 3 nation alliance early on that sounds like the common ground or hegemon origin, they start in a federation but don't get their guaranteed habitable worlds, they are pretty powerful early on but the ai is really bad at expanding with that origin so they fall off hard during the midgame unless they spawn in the perfect location for all three nations to have an expansion route.

[MΛRCUS HΞLIUS]

Originally posted by Roderick:

Originally posted by MΛRCUS HΞLIUS:

Every single game I play, I am usually having to fight 3 or even 4 empires at the same time if I want to go to war with one of them, simply because they all have defensive pacts with each other.

And how do you win that? I have a feeling I am missing something crucial. In games like Age of Wonders or Sins of a Solar empire I can win against higher numbers through the tactical war gameplay, since the ai isn't that smart and you can outmanouver their combat units. In Stellaris I have noticed that selfdesigned ships can give al little edge... but the battle isn't really that tactical when a fight is over within 10 seconds.

A lot of battles will be over pretty fast yeah, remember even on normal speed we are seeing days fly past in game.

I'm no expert but I have been learning from each game and I know so much more than I did even last week.

The key to fighting multiple empires at once is choke points and a strong fleet. To get the strong fleet you need high research and a strong economy.

There are a lot of little things you can do to maximise your economy, during my first few runs I was wasting a lot of resources chasing the wrong technology or working the wrong jobs with my pops.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by Lasagna:

if you don't go hard into diplo you need to go hard into fleets to scare them off, ais usually won't declare on you unless you're significantly weaker then they are.

what difficulty are you playing on?

Skipper. And I do build ships as soon as there are resources ready for it, going over the cap just for that sweet amount of influence one gets.
And this is my point... a single empire or like the last game two of them didn't have enough fleet to beat me. But the game at whole just throws in more allies.
Playing on Skipper and try to have all settings on "normal". I am usually good at such games... Stellaris shows me I am probably just good at tactical unit warefare. xD

[Ryo]

You probably rolled Belligerent AI. (It's written in their diplomacy window, bottom center) Belligerent AI will always, and I do mean always, try to find a way to fight against you if you show the slightest amount of military weakness as soon as they find out how much military you own, and the only two ways to prevent that is either by A. Having a military so superior they actually attempt to be your friend out of the fear that you'll absolutely obliterate them in a war, or if your encryption is so high they cannot fathom ever finding out what you truly hide behind the fog of war, I've attempted both, both work, but remember that eventually it might find how to get information on what you own, while military will only ever let you down if you lose your ships somehow.
And as people said previously, it's rather easy to out-perform the AI militarily early on, and actually not a bad idea to conquer nearby belligerent AI even as a pacifist, liberating them early will change their behaviour to something more tame.