I havent played in a while, how do you deal with empire size?

[Idlemania]

do you stay below 100? is there any tech that reduces its penaltys?

[Elitewrecker PT]

There are ways to reduce the effect on empire size of the different sources but not the penalties.

[Unimportant]

You deal with empire size by produce more

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Idlemania:

do you stay below 100? is there any tech that reduces its penaltys?

In general no. Rather its about finding a balance where the increased output balances with the penalty.

It basically just slow you down a lot (sometimes fatally) if you expand to quickly without building stuff up.

That said, there are effective builds that can keep the empire size very small, especially with the current virtual meta.

[Idlemania]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Idlemania:

do you stay below 100? is there any tech that reduces its penaltys?

In general no. Rather its about finding a balance where the increased output balances with the penalty.

It basically just slow you down a lot (sometimes fatally) if you expand to quickly without building stuff up.

That said, there are effective builds that can keep the empire size very small, especially with the current virtual meta.

so build more labs/temples/unity buildings?

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Idlemania:

so build more labs/temples/unity buildings?

Yes, with the focus being trying to find a work'able balance between output and the penalty from expansion.

[Kalemenos]

I never worry about soft caps, as long as I can afford it. For example in other parts of the game: I always exceed the naval capacity, but not at very early game as the penalties, while small, hurt a small income. But I find starbase capacity different - it's very expensive to exceed that cap. Just make sure you can afford it. And if you expand too much, don't be afraid to demolish things (you can always rebuild later). It's better never to demolish, but demolishing is better than fatal overexpansion. Just like real life: live within your means.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

There are ways to reduce the effect on empire size of the different sources but not the penalties.

A couple of things also reduce the "empire size effect" specifically.

For example the Destiny Traits:

Master Bureaucrat gives -5%
Grey Eminence even gives -10%


And IIRC these are directly additive or cumulative with your current numbers. So if you have let's say 50% increased tech costs from empire size with a Virtual Machine empire, having 2x Grey Eminence should reduce this effect to only 30%.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Kalemenos:

I never worry about soft caps, as long as I can afford it. For example in other parts of the game: I always exceed the naval capacity, but not at very early game as the penalties, while small, hurt a small income. But I find starbase capacity different - it's very expensive to exceed that cap. Just make sure you can afford it. And if you expand too much, don't be afraid to demolish things (you can always rebuild later). It's better never to demolish, but demolishing is better than fatal overexpansion. Just like real life: live within your means.

One thing to consider, exceeding naval capacity doesn't increase your Titan limit.
So as long as you can afford it, exceeding the starbase cap is always more effective (assuming you use titans in each fleet, and you are below the limit).

[corisai]

Originally posted by Idlemania:

so build more labs/temples/unity buildings?

AND taking every possible option to reduce empire spawl from pops if you're going for a long, wide game (read you're not playing virtuality).

Even weak things like Docile trait became amazing and worth much more then Intelligent when you're over 1k empire spawl.

P.S. Yes, when you're over 1k+ Spawl - even Domination & Harmony traditions became pretty much OP and worth it purely for empire size from pops reduction.

[corisai]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

For example the Destiny Traits:

Master Bureaucrat gives -5%
Grey Eminence even gives -10%

Not worth it at all, because they're providing only Empire spawl EFFECT REDUCTION and not actually reduce it. Read: they don't stack with almost everything else.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

For example the Destiny Traits:

Master Bureaucrat gives -5%
Grey Eminence even gives -10%

Not worth it at all, because they're providing only Empire spawl EFFECT REDUCTION and not actually reduce it. Read: they don't stack with almost everything else.

Read the post again.

[corisai]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Read the post again.

Virtuality tradition effects (−15% Empire size from pops) DO NOT stack with Master Bureaucrat / Grey Eminence trait effects. You're confusing modifiers here - only Cybernetic Hivemind can stack a lot of empire size EFFECT reduction, for all other empires it isn't worth it at all.

[CrUsHeR]

Gray Eminence and Master Bureaucrat do not reduce empire size.

They directly reduce the increased numbers for tech and traditions you see as result from empire size. This is the "Empire Size Effect"

It is listed in the tooltips, and it works,



PS - i already gave the example above. If you play Virtual, you may have something like +50% tech costs you can't really lower anymore by EMPIRE SIZE REDUCTION.

But you can go from +50% to +30% by stacking the EMPIRE SIZE EFFECT twice with -10% each.

[corisai]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

They directly reduce the increased numbers for tech and traditions you see as result from empire size. This is the "Empire Size Effect"

As result they're pretty much garbage (compared with other OP destinity traits ofk) if you're stacking normal "Empire size from pops reduction".

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

PS - i already gave the example above. If you play Virtual, you may have something like +50% tech costs you can't really lower anymore by EMPIRE SIZE REDUCTION.

If you're playing Virtual then you have 100% empire size from pops reduction and don't need that garbage :)

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

But you can go from +50% to +30% by stacking the EMPIRE SIZE EFFECT twice with -10% each.

It will not be +30% as "empire size effect reduction" is multiplicative.

[Kalemenos]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

One thing to consider, exceeding naval capacity doesn't increase your Titan limit.
So as long as you can afford it, exceeding the starbase cap is always more effective (assuming you use titans in each fleet, and you are below the limit).

That's a clever way to get more titans, I never thought of it like that. I LOVE Titans, especially for their auras (or better: aurae).

But Titan limit is based on naval capacity (i.e., 1/empire, +1 per 200 n.c.). A station offers a max of +24 n.c. (6 anchorages with a naval logistics office). So I'd need 10 full stations dedicated only to n.c. to get one more titan. At +25% upkeep penalty for all starbases per station above starbase capacity, it seems pretty expensive. Late game I usually have a dyson sphere or two running, and I own many more systems (increasing starbase capacity) so I could manage it, but not until then.