3.11 research is crap

[Baha]

the balance of everything has been screwed up by this, don't even wanna play anymore with this crap

[Magma Dragoon]

turn off difficulty adjusted tech cost

[HappySack]

You can adjust technology costs or revert back to before the change but if that's too difficult to understand then it's better to stop playing because this game isn't getting any better.

[Azor]

Originally posted by HappySack:

You can adjust technology costs or revert back to before the change but if that's too difficult to understand then it's better to stop playing because this game isn't getting any better.

to be fair it's not clear what 'difficulty adjusted tech cost' is supposed to mean. Also, it's in the middle of a dozen other settings...

[Apples]

Originally posted by HappySack:

but if that's too difficult to understand then it's better to stop playing because this game isn't getting any better.

I think you should get hired by Paradox's PR team, you have the kind of positivity they could use!

[CrUsHeR]

As if the new scaling costs were the actual problem.


Researcher job production nerfed from 4 > 3 - a global nerf of 25%
Incremental Research Output techs (+20/40/60%) removed entirely
Impact of Empire Size doubled
Research Speed proportionally increases Researcher CG upkeep

[Magma Dragoon]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Research Speed proportionally increases Researcher CG upkeep

Previously people stacked job upkeep reduction modifiers and avoided the throughput techs so researcher jobs had almost no upkeep, this is a good change.

[TheCrazyHeadGamer]

I love well argumented critics

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Magma Dragoon:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Research Speed proportionally increases Researcher CG upkeep

Previously people stacked job upkeep reduction modifiers and avoided the throughput techs so researcher jobs had almost no upkeep, this is a good change.

The statement makes no sense at all.

In that case, you would have nerfed the research upkeep reduction. Same like the ship upkeep reduction was nerfed.

You don't turn a bonus into a malus.

[Keitzy]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

As if the new scaling costs were the actual problem.


Researcher job production nerfed from 4 > 3 - a global nerf of 25%
Incremental Research Output techs (+20/40/60%) removed entirely
Impact of Empire Size doubled
Research Speed proportionally increases Researcher CG upkeep

Plus they removed a lot of the buffs, nerfed a lot of the other buffs

[echoes222]

slower research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue here

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by echoes222:

slower research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue here

You can only change the global costs of tech, which affects everyone and does NOT reward a smart tech-heavy playstyle.

Stuff like empire size now having 2x effect on tech costs is crippling. Especially combined with the brutal nerfs to individual research production (as explained above), as you now need a greatly increased number of research planets to achieve the same result.

So you need A) more researcher pops and research planets, which B) keeps increasing the costs like crazy, which you can only fight with more (A) leading to more (B).

[Azor]

Originally posted by echoes222:

slower research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue here

fast research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue there

[echoes222]

Originally posted by Azor:

Originally posted by echoes222:

slower research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue here

fast research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue there

fast research is boring, doing repeatables in mid game is killing all the fun.

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by echoes222:

slower research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue here

You can only change the global costs of tech, which affects everyone and does NOT reward a smart tech-heavy playstyle.

Stuff like empire size now having 2x effect on tech costs is crippling. Especially combined with the brutal nerfs to individual research production (as explained above), as you now need a greatly increased number of research planets to achieve the same result.

So you need A) more researcher pops and research planets, which B) keeps increasing the costs like crazy, which you can only fight with more (A) leading to more (B).

still not seeing an issue here. Fast tracking science was a waaaay too easy strategy. It's harder now, which is fair.

Let's agree to disagree, me and a lot of other players are enjoying the change. I guess you had your fun for years and now you have to accept it and move on ;)

[Keitzy]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by echoes222:

slower research is actually really good, and since you can adjust it, not seeing any issue here

You can only change the global costs of tech, which affects everyone and does NOT reward a smart tech-heavy playstyle.

Stuff like empire size now having 2x effect on tech costs is crippling. Especially combined with the brutal nerfs to individual research production (as explained above), as you now need a greatly increased number of research planets to achieve the same result.

So you need A) more researcher pops and research planets, which B) keeps increasing the costs like crazy, which you can only fight with more (A) leading to more (B).

Yeah spot on.

I've tested this. Got 15k research with every single empire reduction I could. The tech cost was just over 150%
The empire size growth compounds exponentially to the point of more research pops = more cost.
This wrecks late game in GA.
All the paradox devs had to do was push the research buffs just before repeatables or lock them behind an ascension perk which is unlocked after maybe 5 or 6.
That way it gives late-mid to late game research a growth spurt.

[𝒞𝒶𝓉𝓎𝒶♡]

Originally posted by Damocracy:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

You can only change the global costs of tech, which affects everyone and does NOT reward a smart tech-heavy playstyle.

Stuff like empire size now having 2x effect on tech costs is crippling. Especially combined with the brutal nerfs to individual research production (as explained above), as you now need a greatly increased number of research planets to achieve the same result.

So you need A) more researcher pops and research planets, which B) keeps increasing the costs like crazy, which you can only fight with more (A) leading to more (B).

Yeah spot on.

I've tested this. Got 15k research with every single empire reduction I could. The tech cost was just over 150%
The empire size growth compounds exponentially to the point of more research pops = more cost.
This wrecks late game in GA.
All the paradox devs had to do was push the research buffs just before repeatables or lock them behind an ascension perk which is unlocked after maybe 5 or 6.
That way it gives late-mid to late game research a growth spurt.

Or.. they could have left changing the "pacing" be a slider for those who wanted slower game. Oh but wait, that was already doable before current change, they just made it reverse so you have to now ease up the tech cost, but you cannot reverse that other stuff Crusher mentioned that leads to that exact loop of mentioned A and B facts.

In other words, i did not also like it. Now also megastructures comes way too late (experienced ones know they now mostly, mostly, come at the point the whole game is already "decided", you know what i mean when looks at the map, score, situation) i feel in most settings, and all games feel just way more (even more than before) focusing on Tech planets (more of them does not make it more fun.........) OR..

OR.. you just do early conquest victory, beat everyone fast. Then rinse and repeat. Such wow. (not really after 5th time in a row lmao).

Yes. The change acts "content" since it was a change. Not saying a good one (for me), but it was a change nevertheless. So when something changes, people get's to play differently for a while, so it feels fresh. But not for long. Soon the ones liking it finds it repetitive and how much longer it takes to get cruisers/battleships unless goes same railroad with Tech planets in scale.. it just feels more.. encumbered? Like rpg term out of a better one. It feels awkward now. Playing next 6 months or whatever with Corvette Swarms for so long at early game probably gets old for people who like it right now since "new" pacing.

The earlier repeatables were always the phase where you did build your power for certain milestones in GA. Also, some good mods did give plenty of fun to do also after you were on repeatables. And the repeatables were part of many of the "power budgets" of things you learned during gitgud phase, so i personally knew when i could do this or that when did hit certain tech/year milestones. It created certain patterns. Maybe even comfort routines lol. But in a good way.

Still, yes - i accept some do enjoy current changes. And well, i'm not 100% hating it. But i sorta kinda expect it should still get some finetuning. Also, how about give us new techs and mid-late game things/events/progress so repeatables are not a big issue/boogeyman that makes some bored when out of the usual tech to do. Like add variety in the endgame, with hidden Giga Awakened Player Empire tier techs etc, bring in ancient threats that brings that power creep on AI also so the power creep on human players is not an issue anymore. No one is overpowered if everyone is, even your enemies. :P (you can still outsmart them haha).

Just personal opinion perhaps, but i'd rather take more dangerous enemies and happenings to deal with in the mid to endgame than more sluggish research gameplay loop of since start with "need more tech planets to deal with this" as the solution. It feels a bit.. ehh. I know they could cook up something better. Then again, we have mods, and they know it hih. So we can use them to get cool late game stuff. Oh well. Still, i hope they are not perfectly happy with current Tech situation.. and will tune it up and look for other models of making the game challenging than having Tech feel awkward Tech planet spam if wants Megastructures etc in decent time to play with.

We have bought DLC with Megastructures.. now can't i just play with the TOYS i bought in time the playthrough is not yet fully done? Because everything else happens as before, i conquer my neighbors (with my Corvette/Destro swarm), but no megastructure toys.. and when gets them, i already won the game. So something should be done to that i feel? Or is it just me?