Multiple Human Empires

[LazerWolf952]

So i am trying to make several different human empires, and I want them to acknowledge being the same species. My question is, do I need lost colony for all but the main empire? or can they have different origins? Do I absolutely need to have the same portrait, or can I have them have a mix of the original human portrait, the new human portrait, and the cyborg human portrait? As I wanted the main empire to use the classic, the more imperial one to use the newer portrait, and the scientific empire to use the cyborg portait from the new mechanical dlc. Do they need the same language and empire adjectives (not to be confused with the race adjectives)?

[HappySack]

They'll all be considered separate species who all just look like humans if you made them from scratch.

I don't know if this will work but I think you can copy and paste either of the starting human empires then modify them but I'll need some confirmation on this.

As always when doing stuff like this if you don't know there are also some hidden requirements to be able to force them all to spawn in the same galaxy.

[Jagothegamer]

If you make them using the same template, give the same name, and the same species traits, they should all spawn as the same species with one shared homeworld, despite their origin.
Though I don't believe they specifically acknowledge their shared heritage, though opinions should still reflect this (Ie; if one is fanatical purifier, they will not be hostile towards you since you are the same species)

[Gingermonkey]

Ive done something similar. They wont give any dialogue for being the same species, but if you have enough intel and look at the opinions, you'll see something like "same species" as a bonus. They just need the same exact name, and im pretty sure the exact same traits as well. Origins dont matter, and i dont think home planet doesnt matter either.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by LazerWolf:

So i am trying to make several different human empires, and I want them to acknowledge being the same species. My question is, do I need lost colony for all but the main empire? or can they have different origins? Do I absolutely need to have the same portrait, or can I have them have a mix of the original human portrait, the new human portrait, and the cyborg human portrait? As I wanted the main empire to use the classic, the more imperial one to use the newer portrait, and the scientific empire to use the cyborg portait from the new mechanical dlc. Do they need the same language and empire adjectives (not to be confused with the race adjectives)?

I've been playing a setup where multiple aliens have syncretic evolution with human serviles, while there are also a few different free human civlizations (void dwellers of Sol, imperial remnant, ocean paradise, lost colony, mechanists). In my experience, using different portraits causes them to be treated as separate species. I use the classic human portrait for near-human "replicants" that the other humans will enslave if they turn xenophobic.

They do not need the same name sets, they do not need the same origins. They do seem to require all being called "human" for the species name at game start and all using the same portrait at game start.

[Sedmeister]

For the game to consider different factions to be the same species, you *only* need the same species portrait. You can have the same species portrait and each species has a different species name and/or different species traits, but the game will still consider them as the same species.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Sedmeister:

For the game to consider different factions to be the same species, you *only* need the same species portrait. You can have the same species portrait and each species has a different species name and/or different species traits, but the game will still consider them as the same species.

That is inconsistent with my experience, in which there are often separate species with the same portrait. Especially if someone gets their hands on the omnicodex and starts printing out new species. But species uplifted by the AI will often splinter into multiple species with a single portrait (and homeworld and base traits) making rights management in the species gallery a more onerous chore than it ought to be.

[Sedmeister]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Originally posted by Sedmeister:

For the game to consider different factions to be the same species, you *only* need the same species portrait. You can have the same species portrait and each species has a different species name and/or different species traits, but the game will still consider them as the same species.

That is inconsistent with my experience, in which there are often separate species with the same portrait. Especially if someone gets their hands on the omnicodex and starts printing out new species. But species uplifted by the AI will often splinter into multiple species with a single portrait (and homeworld and base traits) making rights management in the species gallery a more onerous chore than it ought to be.

My understanding is that in terms of faction politics, the game will consider species with the same portrait as the same race. In terms of genetic engineering, well that's just another level of arcane knowledge that only the experts at Paradox can explain to us.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Sedmeister:

My understanding is that in terms of faction politics, the game will consider species with the same portrait as the same race. In terms of genetic engineering, well that's just another level of arcane knowledge that only the experts at Paradox can explain to us.

In terms of initial game setup, you might be right. I used trial and error to get my setup working and it's possible that setting everyone to the same name was an over-correction on my part. It definitely took me a while to get all the humans reliably grouped into the same species. I have definitely established that they don't need to share species traits or origins- the ocean paradise humans in my game presumably have gills (they're aquatic) but always enjoy citizenship in other human empires. There must be some sort of specification in the save files that controls the grouping, but I've never come across it.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Geoff:

There must be some sort of specification in the save files that controls the grouping, but I've never come across it.

This got me thinking. OK, so I cracked open a game file and did just notice this. There's a flag value associated with all the human branches in the game - in this instance at least "base_ref = 2". So, just a few example specifications:

The classic humans from the Commonwealth of Deneb:

42={
base_ref=2
name_list="HUMAN2"
name={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
plural={
key="Humans"
literal=yes
}
adjective={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
species_bio="At the time of the Cataclysm, Shelter was just a small human colony on a small moon orbiting a gas giant in the Deneb system. Somehow the colony survived the Reavers and their Cataclysm and has managed over centuries of national effort to rebuild itself into a new starfaring human empire. "
class="HUM"
portrait="human"
traits={
trait="trait_adaptive"
trait="trait_nomadic"
trait="trait_wasteful"
trait="trait_talented"
trait="trait_deviants"
trait="trait_pc_continental_preference"
}
home_planet=370
gender=not_set
}

One of the syncretic evolution human servile branches:

44={
base_ref=2
name_list="REP3"
name={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
plural={
key="Humans"
literal=yes
}
adjective={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
class="HUM"
portrait="human"
traits={
trait="trait_syncretic_proles"
trait="trait_adaptive"
trait="trait_nomadic"
trait="trait_wasteful"
trait="trait_deviants"
trait="trait_pc_continental_preference"
}
home_planet=377
flags={
syncretic_species25=62808000
}
gender=not_set
}

A human sub-branch, the habitat-dwellers:

35={
base_ref=2
name_list="HUMAN1"
name={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
plural={
key="Humans"
literal=yes
}
adjective={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
class="HUM"
portrait="human"
traits={
trait="trait_void_dweller_1"
trait="trait_adaptive"
trait="trait_nomadic"
trait="trait_wasteful"
trait="trait_deviants"
trait="trait_talented"
trait="trait_pc_habitat_preference"
}
home_planet=305
gender=not_set
}

The human hive mind (this one has some especially weird interactions with other humans):

24={
base_ref=2
name_list="HIVE"
name={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
plural={
key="Humans"
literal=yes
}
adjective={
key="Human"
literal=yes
}
species_bio="It is unknown how The Consciousness arose among the lost human colonists of Nukara Chee. But emerge, it did. The first organs of The Consciousness renamed it. Like a dream, its fingers have danced across the world, drawing all minds into its own. From these it has learned of the Others, countless orbs filled with senseless fingers whose integration into the Consciousness may allow it to reach the Awakening which it dreams to be possible."
class="HUM"
portrait="human"
traits={
trait="trait_hive_mind"
trait="trait_adaptive"
trait="trait_nomadic"
trait="trait_unruly"
trait="trait_resilient"
trait="trait_pc_continental_preference"
}
home_planet=225
gender=not_set
}

Anyways the only truly consistent specification seems to be this "base_ref" value. So, to the OP you could even conceivable go into your save file and set the base_ref value to any species you want to count as a human. It's kind of a more advanced method but the how-to on doing it can be found here:
https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Save-game_editing

I'd start a new game, save on "Day One" then go in and do the requisite editing, load from the day one save and off you go into a bold new era of multiple mankinds. They may not even require the same portrait if you do it that way. Or the results may go horribly awry, I dunno. But I can't find any non-human species that does have the "base_ref=2" flag and I can't find any human species that doesn't have it.

Coda regarding the edits: This is why your grammar teacher encourages you to eschew double-negatives. I tripped over saying that last sentence correctly several times now, but it should be formally coherent and correct by now.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Anyways the only truly consistent specification seems to be this "base_ref" value. So, to the OP you could even conceivable go into your save file and set the base_ref value to any species you want to count as a human. It's kind of a more advanced method but the how-to on doing it can be found here:
https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Save-game_editing

I've been screwing around with this some more in my own game. Each species is detailed in a sequence. So in this case "base_ref=2" means it is using species 2 (in this case, my servile human slaves) as the base reference point for other species that belong in the same family.

So if you want to go with the save-editing route, you just pick the species number that you want to use as your baseline then add a "base_ref" to any other species that you want to be grouped with it.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Geoff:

I've been screwing around with this some more in my own game. Each species is detailed in a sequence. So in this case "base_ref=2" means it is using species 2 (in this case, my servile human slaves) as the base reference point for other species that belong in the same family.

So if you want to go with the save-editing route, you just pick the species number that you want to use as your baseline then add a "base_ref" to any other species that you want to be grouped with it.

FWIW, the "base_ref" thing is the only flag that matters. I took a post-start generated race - the fungoid neborite, and added the "base_ref=2" tag, and now they're grouped with humans in the species gallery and inherit the human package of rights from my empire when I load a save.

So, bonus application it seems like if you wanted to have a multi-species coalition who consider themselves to be a single species (like the "zoq-fot-pik" of Starcon 2) you could give them all a base_ref flag linking to one of them and then they'd be collectively sub-strains of the same species in game terms.

There is no required overlap other than the base_ref flag in your save files that I can determine.