Non-Removable Traits Ruin Genetic Engineering

[Resident Hobo]

Because I accidentally took biohabitability (+5% habitability) in the early game, I have now wasted two ascension perk slots by unlocking genetic engineering... The game doesn't even tell you that you have locked your perks until you actually attempt to modify your species, which you don't have a reason to do until you unlock genetic engineering.... This is ridiculous. It feels like I practically need to restart the game now because the game didn't tell me I'd be locked out of modifying my species.

[ナルゴ]

lol at the posters not understanding OP's problem.
The traits he's talking about literally cannot be removed and locks you out of further editing the species. In my case it was the brainslugs. The species window locks you out of modifying the species even with bio-engineering perks/research fully maxed.
A.) You cannot apply a template with brainslugs on the pops without them.
B.) You cannot apply a template without brainslugs to overwrite the species and remove it.
C.) The pops under a species template without brainslugs cannot be modified AT ALL, because brainslugs are required, yet they don't have brainslugs to begin with and you cannot select brainslugs to be added.

The entire point of bioengineering builds is so that you can min-max pops on a per planet basis. If you cannot modify your species anymore, then you've wasted the ascension perks/research.
The species window is honestly so buggy that I avoid any research/perks related to it now. It's a travesty that devs are handwaving it as "as designed" when it's so easy to break the game with it (events like alien box, special projects, colony ship without the trait, etc).
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-2-2-abcc-can-not-apply-template-to-species-with-unmodifiable-traits.1500326/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-cant-modify-species-with-some-special-traits-brain-slug-cybernetic-necrophage-aquatic.1499277/

https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/765076/2021_11_24_8.png

Check out this image in particular. His selected dolphin template has cybernetic + brainslug and intends to apply it to the rest of his species, but he CANT.
https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/764622/Necro-Dolph.png

Still an issue in 3.3 beta it seems: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-species-self-modified-resulting-in-sound-bug-and-in-ability-to-apply-template-to-sub-species.1508022/

[Mistfox]

Nguyên văn bởi Dango(Moritz):

lol at the posters not understanding OP's problem.
The traits he's talking about literally cannot be removed and locks you out of further editing the species. In my case it was the brainslugs. The species window locks you out of modifying the species even with bio-engineering perks/research fully maxed. You cannot apply a template with brainslugs on the pops without them. You cannot apply a template to overwrite the species and remove it. The pop template without brainslugs cannot be modified AT ALL.

The entire point of bioengineering builds is so that you can min-max pops on a per planet basis. If you cannot modify your species anymore, then you've wasted the ascension perks/research.
The species window is honestly so buggy that avoid any research/perks related to it now.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-2-2-abcc-can-not-apply-template-to-species-with-unmodifiable-traits.1500326/
https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/765076/2021_11_24_8.png

It's not that we "don't understand", it's that we never encountered the problem he described before even when we go through the same situation so there is something different about his game vs ours somewhere. Might be version, might be mod, might even be file corruption but something is stopping him from doing it.

Edit: Ah yes, it was an "update". Paradox strikes again. Don't let the game auto update, manually do it after you read about the bugs. Let others be the lab rats first.

[Wokelander]

I tried that too, don't remember what trait it was, maybe the Speed Demon one, but it really messed up my gene editing on my main race

[Resident Hobo]

Nguyên văn bởi Mistfox:

Edit: Ah yes, it was an "update". Paradox strikes again. Don't let the game auto update, manually do it after you read about the bugs. Let others be the lab rats first.

sigh

[mss73055]

And it's not even graciously. The genetic interface goes BUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUB
until you close it.

Playing without mods, all DLC but plants.
These free traits lock up genetic engineering. There's no way getting rid of them, only
BUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUB

[Resident Hobo]

Nguyên văn bởi mss73055:

And it's not even graciously. The genetic interface goes BUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUB
until you close it.

Playing without mods, all DLC but plants.
These free traits lock up genetic engineering. There's no way getting rid of them, only
BUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUBBUB

I'm having the same sound. I didn't know how to describe it so I didn't mention it. LOL

[ScreamCon]

So basically...
If you get an event that adds a specialty trait you either get the continual blubing trying to select. Or simply the ability to modify goes grey even when you should be able. I'm getting that right?

I'll be sure to send that up to the paradox forum

[Wokelander]

Nguyên văn bởi ScreamCon:

So basically...
If you get an event that adds a specialty trait you either get the continual blubing trying to select. Or simply the ability to modify goes grey even when you should be able. I'm getting that right?

I'll be sure to send that up to the paradox forum

I think it's event-gained Traits and special habitability traits (Gaia, Habitats , etc) that cause it

[Bermag]

If you have one version of your specie like one created from events and another one without you have to create ttwo templates, one with and one without the special trait.

[Ruffio]

Nguyên văn bởi Khorvale:

Nguyên văn bởi ScreamCon:

So basically...
If you get an event that adds a specialty trait you either get the continual blubing trying to select. Or simply the ability to modify goes grey even when you should be able. I'm getting that right?

I'll be sure to send that up to the paradox forum

I think it's event-gained Traits and special habitability traits (Gaia, Habitats , etc) that cause it

If you do a ring world start, and then could just quickly offset the habitabillity trait, that would just cheese the entire thing.

Maybe you could do it with evolution mastery and genetic sequencing, but that is quite far into the game, so at that stage it wouldn't really be so much of a exploit (whatever).

Just try get some migration treaties going if you want more pop diversity. Robots help too.

[Wokelander]

Nguyên văn bởi Ruffio:

Nguyên văn bởi Khorvale:

I think it's event-gained Traits and special habitability traits (Gaia, Habitats , etc) that cause it

If you do a ring world start, and then could just quickly offset the habitabillity trait, that would just cheese the entire thing.

Maybe you could do it with evolution mastery and genetic sequencing, but that is quite far into the game, so at that stage it wouldn't really be so much of a exploit (whatever).

Just try get some migration treaties going if you want more pop diversity. Robots help too.

I do believe you're answering a question I didn't ask.

[captrench]

Event gained traits cannot be modified (removed or granted). Beneficial event gained traits did use to be something that you could share once you had a pop with the desired trait, but this has been disabled (corrected) now.

All other traits can be removed or granted, if you select all the relevant Ascension perks (Engineered Evolution and Evolutionary Mastery). But Ascension perk traits like Cybernetic or Psionic, and event traits (https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Traits#Special_traits) cannot be removed once granted, or deliberately shared, regardless of which Ascension perks you may already have. Maybe there are exceptions, but this is the rule I have observed.

That is as the developers intend and is not a bug. This means that which ever group gets these traits becomes a separate group you need to micromanage a bit depending on how your OCD reacts ;)

The repetitive audio glitch that occurs when you have a sub group of a particular species that cannot be affected by the current template is a known bug that's been reported and acknowledged apparently.

[Resident Hobo]

Nguyên văn bởi captrench:

That is as the developers intend and is not a bug

Regardless of their intention, the title of the thread stands. It's dumb.

[captrench]

Nguyên văn bởi Resident Hobo 香港独立:

Nguyên văn bởi captrench:

That is as the developers intend and is not a bug

Regardless of their intention, the title of the thread stands. It's dumb.

Dumb? No.

As a fan of the Evolution ascension perks (i take them every game now), when I first found that I couldn't anymore share certain traits, I was initially annoyed too.

However, it does make sense to me now. The Cybernetic and Psionic traits not being shareable should be obvious. If they were shareable it would undermine the point of selecting the Ascension perks they relate to. It would be away to benefit from all three mutually exclusive Ascension perks for the price of one. That's hardly goodly design and obvious design to avoid.

The other traits also make sense to me in being exclusive to a lesser degree. If they could be shared it would undermine the desire to find the sites and events that spawn them first, before other civs do. Not being able to share the traits granted by certain events, projects/anomalies means you have a reason to explore more, find them and complete their various projects because unless you do someone else will.

This adds to the replay-ability of the game itself, as obtaining those desired traits is a race against other civs, and a priority that needs to be juggled against multiple other game priorities depending on which phase of the game you are in.

A background justification for these traits being un-shareable could be that the technology that grants them is to exotic or advanced to be understood well enough and to the same degree as other traits.

Here's a thought... I wonder if you would be receptive to the idea of allowing these special traits to be shared, but with unpredictable side effects (negative traits). Maybe even have a specific set of negative traits reserved just for this. Would be less "dumb" for you?

I'm not a fan of hard stops in a game, such as the "you cannot use this skill at this time", and prefer there to be options with consequences. So this might be one approach for you. But I'm not sure that would make you happy anyway.

[ScreamCon]

Nguyên văn bởi Resident Hobo 香港独立:

Nguyên văn bởi captrench:

That is as the developers intend and is not a bug

Regardless of their intention, the title of the thread stands. It's dumb.

Is it possibly a feature want yea, but there is some problems with some gene picks I threw the problem into the temporary 3.3 beta feedback thread. The most likely place the devs would likely read anyway.