Good ascension for space communists

[Mati_Lublin]

Which ascension would be most fitting for fan egalitarian xenophile empire? I'm talking about "the big three" (synth, psi, bio).
1. Synth ascension - I'm not materialist (although I have huge materialist faction, robots and AI rights), but what would be more egalitarian than encasing everyone into tin can (not to mention 100% habitability and liberal use of Industrial Development benefits)?
2. Bio ascension - Fertile and Robust traits, liberating hives. Asade of gaining more powerful bio pops, nothing really special.
3. Psi ascension - I have no spiritualist pops (but I have friendly spiritualist corporation roaming around) so aside going crazy there's no real reason to choose this.

[ScreamCon]

Both theology and history lesson I use to help solve, please take as idea of inspiration and not mandate as it may have varying levels of factualness.

Materialists aren't necessarily communist. You can have authoritarian materialist, for example science can be used to improve everyone's lives, but it can also be used to empower the elites methods of money extraction from the population.

The Psi ascension is also not necessarily communist as many world religions today have power structures to them. The tops of the religious groups tend to be wealthy as things like church's and like cost money, but its normally at the expense of the followers.

Bio ascension also has the possibility of not being communist if a rich elite control the genetic pool. That is it could go down as like Germany in WW2, the system could go feral trying to wipe out the "perceived" weaker genetic pool.

Answer: If were considering which one is most communist its probably the synthetic ascension, as communism promotes equity but not equality despite what people think. You would almost think the robots were enslaved but robots to the communists are tools to produce to distribute. Robot building is very much in line to how communism tries to maximise production. Production of further production robots at lower and lower system cost.

A common phrase for communism, "everyone is equally worthless until they prove their worth". Did you know communism is actually closer to a war measures act, that due as result from the terrible living conditions of the czars. Another motto is that it is about maximum exploitation of capability from the population. Not a friendly system perceived by Americans, but a tool of war.

Coupling militarist with fanatic egalitarian probably is the best representation of communism. At least Russia's form of communism. The egalitarian Xenophile combo is probably closer to being like an advanced socialist state with good benefits.

Russia is quite militarist as can be seen from how heavy they invest into military to this day. The fall of the Soviet union was the fall of an economic agreement between nations and not the fall of Russia itself, so communism served its purpose. The only difference really between communism and not is whether the government controls factories. (and housing I forgot housing)

You can have a capitalist system with heavy policies on free market (socialist) yet not communist as does not control the factory floor. Indirect control.

Russia if it is more competitive is only so as because their country is older, older countries tend to have more time to setup their systems and get head start. Also access to much natural resource, they have over 50% more land than the united states.

[CrUsHeR]

Synthetic is technically the best option. Though it also takes the longest to discover/research and ascend, and it calls the wrath of the spiritualist Fallen Empire so you need to be prepared for that.

It also creates the perfect egalitarian state, where differences between species are removed and all share the same materialist ethic (which has the easiest faction demands to satisfy). You do not need to actually have materialist ethics in your government, this just gives a bonus on discovering the required technology.

[Lance]

From an RP sense synth certainly seems to be the best choice. Because with a few lines of code you can wipe out annoying things like independent thought, personal aspirations, desire for freedom and other such acts of treason. Psi could accomplish the same thing, just would take more effort.

From a game play sense, it doesn't really matter. All paths are viable.

[Lady Crimson (RIP)]

Generally I would say robotics, you'll already favor making robots so it's a natural next step, especially for egalitarian high trade empires.

From a RP perspective it seems like people don't understand Egalitarian at all though, which is promoting that independent thought, which is essentially the synth ascension which also liberates all robots to be independent people with free thought, in additional to 'upgrading' your own population (though it's assumed it's voluntary like cyberpunk cybernetic upgrades into basically machines).

Psionics is best served to vassalizing empires, or those who make it to custodian (which could be good for a diplomatic type).

Bio is for those who don't want to do robots, or livestock empires.

[mss73055]

Egalitarian is more like hipster stuff.
Things showcased as communisms are religious personality cults.

[Xaphnir]

I don't think any of them necessarily lend themselves to communism better than the other. I'd say for this RP policies matter more. So not using things like selected lineages or capacity boosters for leaders, no slavery, etc. Things your egalitarian and xenophile ethics already have you doing. Other aspects of communism, like eventually reaching a stateless society, aren't really something you can do in game.

[mss73055]

I guess communist got name to be all evil and stuff and that's what you want to play.
Just keep in mind communism never purged on a scale the murican natives got purged. In the 1960s the grand liberator of the world still sported racial separation.

[ScreamCon]

The problem is that the angelic communism is sort of unachievable for long.
Am I saying the Americans are saints, no, but Im also not calling the Russians saints.

The reason is that the same power that allows for egality or great resource production distribution, will eventually also allow for very strong rulers capable of committing possible crimes on national level.

Crimes hidden from the public by propaganda used by both the Americans and Russians.

There is no absolute good guy, only a description of systems. Communism is when your government controls property, with egality not connected. The only way I could imagine it being connected is if it lead to better enforcement of lend leased property compared to a free market system buying selling property with the banks, or if it lead to more fair employment by government employer/employing.

The Stellaris developers set it as part of egalitarian probably so it plays a certain way in game.

The reason its like this is different events are structured based on different things in stellaris. LIke for the comical hive empires based on horrendous space atrocity comics I'm sure. Eventually you will play far enough where the meta of the game doesn't line up to the theme of the empire you built.

Communism isn't absolute egality but an upgrade of egality at best.

[ScreamCon]

Originally posted by mss73055:

Egalitarian is more like hipster stuff.
Things showcased as communisms are religious personality cults.

Thats china's communism. Which is borderline not communism but a capitalist-communism (not actually communist) which might as well be called a non socialist mixed market. And what I mean by non socialist is that china is not "for the people", but rather "of the people" self serve to the political party in laissez faire fasion.

Government with power, lots of owned land inside itself or corporations run by government, extensive government policy on its own facilities, with capitalist industry working around the government facilities. The free market with varying degrees of control by the government. If the claim dose indeed hold true.

Communism cannot be combined with capitalism as communism is where all property is owned by the state. If any free market exists its a mixed market instead of communism. China isn't that but says its communist with a religious propaganda. The religious cult isn't even religious really.

Or at least it is what people perceive that china is claiming to be.

[Xaphnir]

Originally posted by ScreamCon:

Communism cannot be combined with capitalism as communism is where all property is owned by the state.

Not entirely accurate. If you're going by Marx's definition, a core part of communism is a stateless society.

Which is why you can't really achieve that in Stellaris, as the whole point of the game is playing as the state.

[ScreamCon]

Hmmm good point, I didn't think perhaps the developers might have based on Marxist communism versus the Soviet Unions version/implementation of.

[mss73055]

It has to do with the limit on private property. The things you don't want to have, because you're egalitarian. Or in a less elegant way: can't have because of the rules.

An example is Norway, where taxes ramp until they exceed income. And well man, does the USA poop its pants for that :D.

Or fire arms ^^ The European Union has declared state monopoly on violence. In these words.