How is the naval strength of different empires calculated?

[timofeigel82]

I send spies to other realms to find out what their status is and to steal some technology. With enough information you can also see how the fleets, technologies and economy are positioned compared to your own empire. But I've noticed for years now that the information is often not correct. I attack a neighbor who has a "pathetic fleet strength" compared to me.

As an example, I have an 8,900 fleet and a 3,600 fleet, suddenly three 10k fleets appear on my opponent, but he is "pathetic" in contrast to me. I also don't have any patrol fleets that could be counted as fleet strength. If one of his fleets is already bigger than my largest fleet and the opponent has three of them, how can he be pathetic?

[Chap]

i think it's calculated with a toothpick a chewing gum wrapper and a lump of mold so assuming from your time played that you aren't new to the game and the enemy doesn't have allies/federation fleets then it's the fleet calculation being funny again

[Pieshaman]

I have no idea in your case, but if I have an opponent with a pathetic fleet strength compared to mine, then it is really no threat at all.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Fleet power is calculated typically with the lowest range numbers (for example, 1 to 100 power is usually destroyers and corvettes only) while larger range numbers such as your own (10k) is for those with cruisers and battleships.

The way its typically calculated I've learned is that 1 power is equal to one corvette, 4 is for a destroyer, 8 for a cruiser, 16 for a battleship and so on from there, then those numbers stack with each mark weapon they have.

So if I were to say, give a Corvette 3 mark 5 lasers, thats 1+15 which outs about 16 fleet power per one, then times that with repeatable technology. Realistically the fleet power of pathetic comes as a result of the player having more repeatable technology then the AI's do.

For example if you were to realistically look at any other empire in the game, you'll typically find you do not have more ships then said AI, but you do have far more armor, shields and firepower then they do in any single one of them.

For example I was playing a game with mods last night, keep in mind its just ACOT and EC3. One Dreadnaught had roughly 293k power, thats one ship while the nearest empire to me, an AI with 43 planets by midgame, had a total combined fleet power of only roughly 100k.

The game does not seem to do a typical caluclations from what I've seen, the power of fleets scale with the possible damage output the fleets can do in a day I'm guessing.

For example, 10k fleet power is likely the total damage that fleet can do in a single day of combat, which actually makes some sense if we put in that light rather then my prior example

So if I took my 293k power ship against an 83k power ACOT station I should expect a swift win. No it took 2 months for the two to finally tank it out and while I did win, I did confirm that the 293k power of that ship was how much it was taking off the ACOT AI station per day, then sent in two battleships with it for the next system, keep in mind none of these 3 ships were grouped up and ya, altogether one battleship was doing 103k damage, the dreadnaught still on 293k and the last battleship on 83k (the first battleship held a Veteran rank from clearing out smaller systems on its own prior)

And ya, 103k+83k+293k roughtly did come out to 479k-480k.

So from what I'm guessing is that fleet power is displaying how much power or damage that fleet can put out in a day, thats my guess, which makes sense if we say that the scaling in this game is off the charts even without mods and players can reach 100k power before the AI typically has 1k anyways so that scaling indeed does not mean much.

[Big mean bunny]

Maybe they hired fleets and the hired fleets don't count? Or they are a fed member and they had an assist. Three 10K fleets rules out a fed fleet directly unless it was split.

[timofeigel82]

Originally posted by Mischievous Sly Succubus:

Fleet power is calculated typically with the lowest range numbers (for example, 1 to 100 power is usually destroyers and corvettes only) while larger range numbers such as your own (10k) is for those with cruisers and battleships.

The way its typically calculated I've learned is that 1 power is equal to one corvette, 4 is for a destroyer, 8 for a cruiser, 16 for a battleship and so on from there, then those numbers stack with each mark weapon they have.

So if I were to say, give a Corvette 3 mark 5 lasers, thats 1+15 which outs about 16 fleet power per one, then times that with repeatable technology. Realistically the fleet power of pathetic comes as a result of the player having more repeatable technology then the AI's do.

For example if you were to realistically look at any other empire in the game, you'll typically find you do not have more ships then said AI, but you do have far more armor, shields and firepower then they do in any single one of them.

For example I was playing a game with mods last night, keep in mind its just ACOT and EC3. One Dreadnaught had roughly 293k power, thats one ship while the nearest empire to me, an AI with 43 planets by midgame, had a total combined fleet power of only roughly 100k.

The game does not seem to do a typical caluclations from what I've seen, the power of fleets scale with the possible damage output the fleets can do in a day I'm guessing.

For example, 10k fleet power is likely the total damage that fleet can do in a single day of combat, which actually makes some sense if we put in that light rather then my prior example

So if I took my 293k power ship against an 83k power ACOT station I should expect a swift win. No it took 2 months for the two to finally tank it out and while I did win, I did confirm that the 293k power of that ship was how much it was taking off the ACOT AI station per day, then sent in two battleships with it for the next system, keep in mind none of these 3 ships were grouped up and ya, altogether one battleship was doing 103k damage, the dreadnaught still on 293k and the last battleship on 83k (the first battleship held a Veteran rank from clearing out smaller systems on its own prior)

And ya, 103k+83k+293k roughtly did come out to 479k-480k.

So from what I'm guessing is that fleet power is displaying how much power or damage that fleet can put out in a day, thats my guess, which makes sense if we say that the scaling in this game is off the charts even without mods and players can reach 100k power before the AI typically has 1k anyways so that scaling indeed does not mean much.

Good explenation.

[timofeigel82]

Originally posted by Big mean bunny:

Maybe they hired fleets and the hired fleets don't count? Or they are a fed member and they had an assist. Three 10K fleets rules out a fed fleet directly unless it was split.

It was no hired fleet in there and he had no allies, it was all from him alone. His technology was better than mine, but that was it.

First i saw one fleet with 10k and i was thining, okay, with my two fleets together i destroy it. A month later he sent the other two 10k fleets in the sensor reach and i stopped the game. In earlier games i lost with a 9.000 fleet again a 5.000 fleet, so i have no chance.

[Lance]

The formula is: ( ( effective_health * damage_per_day ) ^ exponent ) * scale

Your armor,hull and shields play a large role. Further, it isn't just the damage of the weapons that is factored it. It also includes things like range, tracking, ability to penetrate armor/shields, what type of weapon it is ( missiles get a negative, PD gets a bonus ), etc.

Also, keep in mind that when comparing your fleet power to an enemies there are modifiers even beyond this.

All of these values can be found in 00_defines.txt.

[timofeigel82]

Originally posted by Lance:

The formula is: ( ( effective_health * damage_per_day ) ^ exponent ) * scale

Your armor,hull and shields play a large role. Further, it isn't just the damage of the weapons that is factored it. It also includes things like range, tracking, ability to penetrate armor/shields, what type of weapon it is ( missiles get a negative, PD gets a bonus ), etc.

Also, keep in mind that when comparing your fleet power to an enemies there are modifiers even beyond this.

All of these values can be found in 00_defines.txt.

Thank you, I also want to know how this fleet strength is assessed. Because if an opponent with one fleet already has more than me, and then three of them, then he can't be "equal" or even "pathetic".

[Roadie]

Yup. It's possible too that a fleet with lower fleet power than yours can still defeat yours if they have ship builds that counter your ship builds effectively enough.

Like, if you have more armor than shields and the weaker fleet has a LOT of armor penetration weapons, they will probably beat you. Similarly, if you have a lot of shield-focused weapons but the enemy fleet focused more on armour, you'll also likely lose against a weaker fleet.

*ask me how I know*

[Kalemenos]

Sometimes you see a fleet floating around in enemy space, and it's not that empire's fleet. It can be a mercenary, or one of their allies. So if you see to 10k's pop up, mouse over and/or click on to see to which empire they belong. Furthermore, the enemy may be building fleets, and between the moment you looked at "pathetic" and the time they came out of the starbase something may have changed.

[timofeigel82]

Originally posted by Kalemenos:

Sometimes you see a fleet floating around in enemy space, and it's not that empire's fleet. It can be a mercenary, or one of their allies. So if you see to 10k's pop up, mouse over and/or click on to see to which empire they belong. Furthermore, the enemy may be building fleets, and between the moment you looked at "pathetic" and the time they came out of the starbase something may have changed.

I can read, i know if it is the fleet of this empire or not. They have different fleet names. An aquatic race has mostly names like "water" of "flood" or something else. If a "stone" fleet is inside then it is clear that this fleet is not from them but from the lithoid empire in their neighborhood. I talk if the war is already started. Then suddenly appear fleets that are much stronger than me.