When to use robots with materialist

[Korpah the Dutch Gamer]

So I play this game for a long time but I have never figured out when or why to use droids. and specifically in the slave role, or why to pick the materialist ethic (Besides the research bonus)

As all ascension paths lead towards creating your own pops? so why would you create droids who are enslaved

Synth = create your self
Cybernetic = create your self
genetics = create your self
psionics = no droids?

As I am trying to play more materialist but I just don't get there bonus of - upkeep for droids.
Or does this also apply for synths/cybernetic pops?

Someone please enlighten me!

[Garatgh Deloi]

Robot pops (Aka Robots, Droids and Synths) are all the same regardless if they are your ascended pops or robot pops assembled in advance, once the upgrade is researched every robot becomes a droid and for the next upgrade every droid becomes a synth.

Also, why wouldn't you build droids as psionics? Your are likely not using the pop assembly spot for anything else and you aren't restricted into not using them. If anything psionic empires is the most suitable empire type for keeping robots enslaved rather then giving them rights.

Lastly, one of the benefits of robots is their 100% habitability, assuming you don't get pops with the climate preference from somewhere else, you can use droids (they need to be upgraded to droids before you can give them colonization rights) to colonize worlds early that your main species can't use.

[Cellar_Cat]

"robots" is the whole chain of artificial pops AFAIK. So if you turn all your people into synthetics then it should reduce their upkeep just like it does for ones you build.

Not sure about cybernetics, I was under the impression they still use food like normal and they are just a modified (mostly) biological pop.

[Korpah the Dutch Gamer]

This is helpfull! thanks.
I never ever played stellaris in my 3000 hours this way.
more ways to play <3

[mss73055]

Spirituals resent fully robotic pops.
Apart from this pretty anything goes.

[Kufesska]

robots are just additional pops early(and pops are power)
few low-tier techs to research though

wanna go synth? you have to research all robots techs anyway, build robot assembly on every planet(you want them to be here at the moment you ascended), and after ascension you just assimilate those tenth of extra pops

cybernetic - additional early pops, robot assembly everywhere for same purpose, just stop assembling robots after ascension, and still keep them to work for you

genetics - early additional pops, and then just keep them, and make roboticists work other job
though i think it the closest path to ignore robots completely

psionics... some debuff on your spiritualist pops happiness even if you enslave them(and much bigger if give full citizenship), but still - more pops
although, with bonus to faction happiness from being in council, i think you still can have them as slaves, and assembly during whole game

[Bermag]

You will have very low approval with spirtualist if you give Robots citizien rights. And if you don't you might risk Robot rebellion. However I think you need to have researched either Sapient Combat Simulation (combat computer)) or Synthetics technology for Robot rbellion to happpen. If you avoid those two techs you will be fine.

However, watch out when researching combat debris becuase you might get it that way.

[Kufesska]

Originally posted by Bermag:

You will have very low approval with spirtualist if you give Robots citizien rights. And if you don't you might risk Robot rebellion. However I think you need to have researched either Sapient Combat Simulation (combat computer)) or Synthetics technology for Robot rbellion to happpen. If you avoid those two techs you will be fine.

However, watch out when researching combat debris becuase you might get it that way.

any of two, as psionic you don't need sapient CC, and you can just ignore synthetics tech, so not a problem
for others - you either have full citizenship for AI, or stop producing and researching them before crtical point(you need at least 25% of total pops as robots, or 75 in total for rebellion)

also, even if that situation happens, you can finish it with just some temporary debuff, and still keep all pops and producing them
situation can start only once
imho - worth it even with chance of rebellion

[corisai]

to OP: another reason to user robots is to specialize them. For example - main race is science-one, another slaver race is mining one and robots are energy generators. Or something like that.

Still robots are very expensive and not worth being used if you're planning to use other ways to get extra species: raiding (better to spend alloys on ships) or plant-pops.

Originally posted by Kufesska:

any of two, as psionic you don't need sapient CC, and you can just ignore synthetics tech, so not a problem

If I recall correctly - sometimes it's better then psionic one.

Originally posted by Kufesska:

for others - you either have full citizenship for AI, or stop producing and researching them before crtical point(you need at least 25% of total pops as robots, or 75 in total for rebellion)

Or just save-scum during a rebellion event chain to enslave them before they do a revolt.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Kufesska:

psionics... some debuff on your spiritualist pops happiness even if you enslave them(and much bigger if give full citizenship), but still - more pops
although, with bonus to faction happiness from being in council, i think you still can have them as slaves, and assembly during whole game

Mostly not worth it to keep them in late game.

As playing psionic - you're definitely going to have 2+ scientists with destiny trait on psionic pops resource output.

That make robots a mess for you:
a) extra empire spawl from pops who are far less productive then your main ones.
b) reduced happiness of your people and extra faction to annoy you.
c) [UPD] "wrong pops" are not only produce empire spawl but also reduce growth of your psionic pops due to diminishing on pop growth.

That why playing a psionic I prefer to swap robots with psionics after enslaving a race or two.

P.S. "Pops are the king" is for early game. In late game it's all about optimization of your existing pops to get more science&unity while keeping empire spawl as low as possible.

[Korpah the Dutch Gamer]

Thanks for the input, so there is not really an "best" way to play with droids enslaved as matarialist. (i know rp and all that) AND the -20% robot upkeep is also for the synths you can become as far as i understood?

Do cybernetic pops also count as robots?

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Korpah the Dutch Gamer:

Do cybernetic pops also count as robots?

No.

Originally posted by Korpah the Dutch Gamer:

the -20% robot upkeep is also for the synths you can become as far as i understood?

Yes. It applies to robots/droids/synths that you build, and to organics that you ascend into synths, and to more of those types of synths that you build later.

Originally posted by Korpah the Dutch Gamer:

so there is not really an "best" way to play with droids enslaved as matarialist.

The "right" way to play materialist is to give artificial life forms full citizen rights. You are not forced to play them the "right" way, and so if you want to keep your artificial life enslaved you can. There are costs that must be paid as a consequence of making that choice, however, such as risk of uprising and an inability to follow synthetic ascension. Whether the costs outweigh the benefits is something you will have to decide for yourself.

[corisai]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

The "right" way to play materialist is to give artificial life forms full citizen rights. You are not forced to play them the "right" way, and so if you want to keep your artificial life enslaved you can.

I really want to know - will be it available as an option for Materialist Genocidal empire? Legal way to do it is via "Fear in the Dark" origin.

[frowningmirror]

Originally posted by Korpah the Dutch Gamer:

Thanks for the input, so there is not really an "best" way to play with droids enslaved as matarialist. (i know rp and all that) AND the -20% robot upkeep is also for the synths you can become as far as i understood?

Do cybernetic pops also count as robots?

No, they are biological

Robots are very good. They are a species that isn't affected by happiness initially, also, servitude doesn't count as slavery, so egalitarian empires can specialize them as workers (egalitarians have a lot of non-obvious penalties for using slavery). Furthermore population really speeds up your development, its very important in the early game, and robot factories directly contribute to your population. So the better question is why you wouldn't use them.

Only reason I can think of is you are specifically trying to both get faction unity with a spiritualist faction and you want to grab the psionics technology card. Or maybe you're just in the late game and you have really good worker species and no room on your planets or something.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by corisai:

That make robots a mess for you:
a) extra empire spawl from pops who are far less productive then your main ones.

If you click on any of your workers, you'll see that the base production of e.g. minerals is 4, but the worker is actually producing 12+ after all the cumulative bonuses.

So the difference between a psionic pop with +20% output and a synth with 10% output makes up 0.4 minerals from this job.

That is absolutely NOT "far less productive", in fact the difference is so marginal that it is irrelevant.


However, by not building robots, your empire is probably missing around 10-30% of its population. Depending on which game settings for pop growth you roll with, and some other factors (e.g. Mechanist origin, Assembler governor etc).

[corisai]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

However, by not building robots, your empire is probably missing around 10-30% of its population.

I don't said "don't build robots" >_<

I said - for Psionic ascension I would prefer to get rid of them in LATE-game (once I get at least 2 destiny traits on council scientists) and swap them with psionic pops conquered from other race (-s). Ideally at least one of them is plant because - you know why xD

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

So the difference between a psionic pop with +20% output and a synth with 10% output makes up 0.4 minerals from this job.

You'd forget about opportunity cost - pops wasted on robotist job (output is unaffected for being a psionic).