Diplomacy gutted?

[Wolf Green]

So, when playing I noticed Envoys got nerfed hard. No longer being able to assign them to the galactic community. Replacing their diplomatic function with governors? Why? And bribing nations to gain favors was also removed for some reason. I felt the previous system there was rather balanced, why did it get gutted?

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Wolf Green:

So, when playing I noticed Envoys got nerfed hard. No longer being able to assign them to the galactic community. Replacing their diplomatic function with governors? Why? And bribing nations to gain favors was also removed for some reason. I felt the previous system there was rather balanced, why did it get gutted?

Governors as a leader class aren't a thing anymore.

We now have "Scientists, Officials & Commanders", any of these 3 leader classes can now govern a world (they all give different advantages and disadvantages to doing so, they all have 1 veteran class focused on governing).

Just like any of the 3 can be on the council (with 1 or 2 veteran classes focused on that).

Then they all have 1 extra job (Scientists run science ships, commanders run armies or fleets, officials is your delegation to the galactic community or federation).

[GorillaB]

I am as puzzled as you. As a fellow player with well over 1,000 hours, this whole expansion (and associated free patch) seem disconnected.

Clearly there was a deadline to push out a dlc before the end of the, year and this is the best collection of ideas that came up in their brainstorming. It feels like it's the end consequence of a lull in creativity amongst the devs (not abnormal from time to time with all creatives), or poor management/lead on the design side (sadly, also not abnormal), combined with a mandatory need for a paid expansion at that exact same time.

This is the only expansion I have not bought. It is unfortunate that they don't seek feedback from their best customers.

[GorillaB]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Wolf Green:

So, when playing I noticed Envoys got nerfed hard. No longer being able to assign them to the galactic community. Replacing their diplomatic function with governors? Why? And bribing nations to gain favors was also removed for some reason. I felt the previous system there was rather balanced, why did it get gutted?

Governors as a leader class aren't a thing anymore.

Any of the 3 leader classes can now govern a world (they all give different advantages and disadvantages to doing so, they all have 1 veteran class focused on governing).

Just like any of the 3 can be on the council (with 1 or 2 veteran classes focused on that).

Then they all have 1 extra job (Scientists run science ships, commanders run armies or fleets, officials is your delegation to the galactic community or federation).

It's not that this rework isn't ok. It's meh; whatever. But that's the point. That it is puzzling that of all the things to address this was what made it in the free patch: a rework of leaders. And the kind of rework that directly interferes with your mental muscle-memory on how we do basic things, like improve relationships or earn favours.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by GorillaB:

It's not that this rework isn't ok. It's meh; whatever. But that's the point. That it is puzzling that of all the things to address this was what made it in the free patch: a rework of leaders. And the kind of rework that directly interferes with your mental muscle-memory on how we do basic things, like improve relationships or earn favours.

You mean like they have done several times during the games lifespan? Heck you can still find people grumbling about not having tiles anymore.

It does feel like they sometimes rework stuff just to rework it.

[GorillaB]

A better rework would be coming up with an actual vision for what sectors are meant to be. They have changed all the way from autonomous zones within your empire, through all sorts of terrible automation that doesn't build like human's do, to today's state where they are a leader-sink.

I realise that some people feel like vassals are the replacement for the autonomous zones, but I disagree. Managing huge empires is a chore, and being able to automate a section (including civil/research within those borders), yet leave it fully within your control when needed, is actually very convenient. It would also allow us to collapse huge portions of the outliner, reducing the impact of scroll.

Most players tend to love managing a few core systems they are attached to, and don't want to build every planet by mid to late-game.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Anyway, to answer the topic.

No i wouldn't say diplomacy have been gutted. A high level official, especially if specced for the role, is way better then a whole pile of envoys used to be.

That said, they have made how many envoys you can get from civics and your empire ethics way less important.