The war in heaven just completely ruins the game for me.

[Nella]

For context, I am a reasonably new player who has only being playing for a month or two now. There is still a bunch I need to learn, especially regarding micro managing combat and setting up proper station. I also prefer solo RP sessions in the game.

That being said, a couple of days ago, I had an amazing Solo Run where I roleplayed a Hive Mind Forest with the goal of securing and protecting the galaxy's life. So far there was peace in the galaxy and most of the federations had just finished putting a jerk lithoid xenophobe in their place.

However, 2 weeks later (in game time), and 2 fallen empires declared war on heaven. I instantly went on the wiki and did a bit of research on this new event and found it quite interesting.

At the time, I was the strongest non-fallen empire present, and I thought that if me and my allies came together to oppose these fallen empires, we will win. I was so wrong.

My fleets (At around 400 K power in total) were just ever so slightly weird than the nearest fallen empire, (600 K total).

Well, the fallen empire suddenly got 2 800K fleets and bumb rushed my capital system. Taking all my mega structures and shipyards while my allies are claiming the unprotected sectors of the fallen empire from behind.

Meaning, I just have some small sectors that are surrounded by allies which will ensure I won't get wiped out, but I went from the strongest to the weakest in a matter of minutes .

This is just feels like such ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, why did they get 2 bonus fleets then doubled their fleet power. It's so unfair....

Furthermore, none of my allies came to help, they just sneaked behind the fallen empire's fleets and took their unprotected territories while I was being bullied.


One vent post on the Steam forums later, I asked for advise on how to handle the situation and I started a new run. This time, I was doing a void dwelling community of human scientists. And so far, this run was even better than the last. I became the galactic custodian and everything was flawless. I even managed to beat a 5x Nanite Incursion back into their sector as the galactic defender and I was pretty proud with how I became better with combat.

That is until another war in heaven triggered.

I learnt my lesson from last time and I remembered the advise that the steam community gave me. I prepared Disruptor spam cruisers as one person told me, took the anti fallen empire ascension perk as another advised and I was prepared this time. So I decided to rather join the nearby fallen empire instead of having everything wiped by them like last time, however my closest ally that I share space with forms the independant faction. They immediately thus are at war with me and proceeds to destroy everything I built up.

I lost everything again.

To reach the end of this rant, I'm at a loss. I love playing this game so much, but if each time I have my playthroughs ruined by fallen empires throwing tantrums, I just don't want to play anymore. I tried, I really tried with this new run, but I'm just crushed, both in game and in spirit.

I just please want any advise or just anything. Please.

And I apologize for this dumb rant of a stranger on the internet, and thank you for reading this.

[Nella]

I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wish you can rebuild the dreadnaught after you claim it cause my prized fleet leader was wiped out in second.

I'm so utterly pissed off. Everything was going so good.

[mss73055]

Brace yourself.
After this, or worse at the same time, you will be confronted with extragalactic invaders.

[cobb.311]

You can disable fallen empires in the game setup, if you'd like.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Bad luck, war in heaven isn't even very common.
Still, if you were the steongest player you should have been able to deal with a regular empire in your border.
Alternatively - you conquer the other fallen empires before they can awaken and possibyl cause a war in heaven.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Nella:

I just please want any advise or just anything. Please.

And I apologize for this dumb rant of a stranger on the internet, and thank you for reading this.

I just triggered my first War in Heaven last night. Playing a long and slow game with 25x crisis, somehow I've never actually had one before. The FE had been very aggressive since the start of the mid game, but because their fleets don't replenish it'd gotten to the point where I just let my AI federation partner handle them without my intervention and I was mostly focused on building up my worlds and fleets. I've got the crisis set to 25x all, so I was preparing for that.

So we get about ten years past the start of the end game, and I get this invitation to support a rebellion in one of the nastier slave empires still remaining. Which has pretty much been the only way I expand - "sure you can join me." So just as that war starts, the War in Heaven triggers.

First note is that yeah - the spam avalanche sucks. I take my time working through all the clickety clicketies but so many boxes, none of which have a minimize option and many of which overlap with one another. I went with the "bring it on" option. They tried to change my federation's name to the League of Non-Aligned Powers, but fortunately you can just change it right back. Then everyone in the galaxy tried to join my federation, including the guys I was already at war with. I'm curious what would have happened if I'd allowed that, but it felt weird and wrong so I refused. The three wars are still raging - I realized I wasn't finishing it in one session, so I'll be finishing it up today.

My fleet stood fast. I play on 3.6, so i don't really have to fart around with corvettes in the end game. Honestly the current meta just sounds like hell. I've got two doomstacks - the federation fleet and the Ouranos Armada, which is 10 titans escorted by 6 fleets of battleships and a few fleets of cruisers.

The way the war is going has been kinda strange. The Andarians have invaded the Ferellians, who left their space undefended so they could invade me. My federation fleet has invaded the Andarians, who left their space undefended to invade the Ferellians.

My Ouranos Armada ripped two Ferellian fleets to shreds. I've never had ten titans in a single battlegroup before, but it's a little slower than its escorts so it arrives a beat behind them into systems. Which means my wall of battleships takes the first volley and then the titans come in and launch their volley and.... that's curtains for half the FE fleet.

I've still got the original war going on, and I expect the poor revolutionaries who got me enmeshed in that conflict are the ones who are going to pay the highest price in all this.

I think the main reason why I've never seen one before, is that I don't think I've made it to an end game before with a matched pair of surviving Fallen Empires. In this game I destroyed the fanatic xenophiles in the mid-game, but the spiritualist-materialist pair were far away and after I broke their fleets, I just let the AI handle their kinda repetitive and hopeless invasions. It might be possible to avoid the War on Heaven by bringing down one half of the matched pairs earlier in your games.

I agree that it's certainly a lot, and I wasn't really prepared for it. I'm glad I went with "bring it on." I wasn't really prepared for the "total war" dynamic of it and my poor junior partner has lost a lot of territory that I'm slowly grabbing back. I wouldn't let any xenophobes into my federation, so they've all become little henchmen to the FE. Which is annoying in that it's more fronts of the war, but also means that when the dust settles I'm going to have a lot more territory and a lot fewer enemies than I had before.

[corisai]

I'm curious what you will say when begin to play with mods and trigger first time War in Hell :) or just will findout FE having in average 3M of fleetpower so early conquest is no longer possible (ACOT mod).

[EJR]

If you're a new player the best thing to do when learning the game is changing the game's settings when starting a new game, particularly the midgame and endgame years.

When I started I adjusted the midgame stuff to happen around 2600-800 and the endgame around 2900-3000 just so I had enough time to learn all the game's systems while slogging along in awkward existence; I also changed or removed some other things too, such as making no MEs spawn and only 1-2 FEs spawned.

But as I got better and better, I began readjusting the midgame and endgame years to where they were originally while also letting more FEs spawn again (Still no to MEs though, I'm still salty of an empire I was winning a war against hiring them because they couldn't scratch their own ass).

Honestly out of all the Crisis that can happen in Stellaris, the War in Heaven is IMO the best one to deal with as you deal with an actual intergalactic conflict and not some hive mind enemy from another dimension trying to consume the entire galaxy.

[corisai]

Originally posted by EJR:

When I started I adjusted the midgame stuff to happen around 2600-800 and the endgame around 2900-3000 just so I had enough time to learn all the game's systems while slogging along in awkward existence; I also changed or removed some other things too, such as making no MEs spawn and only 1-2 FEs spawned.

I don't recommend touching Mid-Game date - nothing REALLY bad unlocked by it. Marauders now weak as a toddlers so Khan is very good measure of your progress - you should easily beat him at default date.

[FD_Stalker]

That's why every gameplay is physics tech rush 60 cycle and spam arc emitter battleships
They nerf plasma
They nerf neutron
They nerf Giga cannon
They never touch arc emmiter double pen

[Dave]

The only thing I can really say is that this kind of thing bothered me initially too. But then I began to realize that it's just another aspect of the RP. Your empire was at the top of its game and you thought no one could challenge you. But time and chance struck and events you couldn't control came into effect. You got kicked back down and now you're going to have to recover and it's a struggle. So build your forces back up and take back the territory you used to have. Forgive the trespasses of other empire or subjugate those who crossed you or annihilate them as you deem each option necessary. And go from there.

[corisai]

Originally posted by FD_Stalker:

They never touch arc emmiter double pen

While penetrating weapons always the best choice against FE - Tachyon Lance & Kinetic Artillery spam is still working too.

[Rock]

Originally posted by FD_Stalker:

That's why every gameplay is physics tech rush 60 cycle and spam arc emitter battleships
They nerf plasma
They nerf neutron
They nerf Giga cannon
They never touch arc emmiter double pen

I've been messing around with neutron launchers with Cruisers and I'm actually surprised how good they are. Put max amount of them on a Cruiser and rest is missiles. Battleships in there as well, give them Arc emitters and whirlwind missiles (and they get 1 hangar bay).
Physics give arc emitter more damage and engineering can focus on explosives.

You just blast everything from range (arty behavior) with this ignoring shields. Neutrons don't ignore shields but the scaling damage based on target size is really good. And since there is bunch of missiles in the battlefield the neutrons will most likely hit their targets.

But I guess my "normal" fleet loadout is Battleship only fleet. Tac-lances with kinetic batteries +2x Whirlwind missiles on arty.
Sneak 5 carrier variants (they also have tac-lances and whirlwind missiles on arty behavior [small slots have more missiles]) on the mix with those and that fleet will dominate always. Aux slots can be 3x Afterburners or 3x extra hit chance, both are good.

Oh and ALWAYS favor armor over shields. Always more armor on a ship than shields. So in Battleships cases you have 6 slots, you put 4 armor and 2 shields. Because there are bunch of weapon systems that ignore shields (especially torpedoes and missiles) but they don't ignore armor. There are also space weather and system conditions that strip away your shields. So if your designs don't overly rely on shields it puts you on a way better spot.

Originally posted by Nella:

Advice to Nella is to focus more on building your fleets. You need to push at least +1K alloys per month if you want to be able to feed your war machine.

If your Tech allows it, steal the loadout ideas that I mentioned.
Disruptors are really good but only up to a point.
War in Heaven is end game content and by then your fleet and their loadouts should reflect that.
Arty battleships are king, like mentioned put around 5 or so that have carriers and you get bit of point defense in there in the mix as well so enemy missiles and torpedoes don't get free value (assuming they even got that close) and your strike craft will counter enemy strike craft.
The rest of the battleships on that fleet should be pure arty battleships hammering the enemy with those kinetic batteries. Those beasts will tear away enemy shields and those Tac-lances will rip apart everything.

Why all out battleships with arty behavior ? Because you get to shoot first....a lot. And when does the enemy get to shoot back ? That's the neat part....they don't.
You do so much damage from the maximum allowed range to kill most of the enemy before they even get the chance to shoot back.
Disruptor builds have one massive downside and it's their range. It means the enemy gets to blast at you as well. Getting shot hurts. You don't wanna get shot at. Much better to shoot at the enemy while they cannot.

Also you should consider building Fort worlds. If you have a good chokepoint you can build a nice starbase there and a habitat and you colonize it and designate it as Fortress world. Build planetary shields there and just build strongholds there and upgrade them. This will slow down the enemy fleets A LOT. +6-10k worth of defense armies with a planetary shield protecting the Fort world is no joke. That thing will hold out forever if the enemy opts for orbital bombardment. Which means you get to regroup with your fleets and plan your counterattack.

If enemy has big stack of landing armies or colossus type ship, use jump drives...flank them etc just snipe those things out before they get to use them on your Fort worlds. That will buy you even more time.

Last advice....and this is my xenophobe talking....never trust the alien. Make no mistake, you are alone. Do not rely your allies can or will save you. Plan your entire War campaign and homeland security under the assumption that you will not get help from your..."allies".

[corisai]

Originally posted by Rock:

And since there is bunch of missiles in the battlefield the neutrons will most likely hit their targets.

Sigh. Neutrons are energy weapons and not affected by PD.

UPD. And forget about missiles against FE on Grand Admiral. With enough bonuses PD start to one-shot missiles and since that they're completely useless.

Originally posted by Rock:

But I guess my "normal" fleet loadout is Battleship only fleet. Tac-lances with kinetic batteries +2x Whirlwind missiles on arty.

Now add to them a fleet of cruisers armed with NT and:
a) using thrusters one tier below
b) using same or 1 less amount of afterburnes (depend on your +sublight, check on actual ships to be sure cruisers are a bit slower then BBs).
c) using a Line computer.
Then they will be really devastating.

Originally posted by Rock:

Why all out battleships with arty behavior ? Because you get to shoot first....a lot. And when does the enemy get to shoot back ? That's the neat part....they don't.

It's still working well but you need either range bonuses (like at least from Juggernaut) or massive advantage in numbers against FE/AE & 10+ crisis.

Disruptors and naked Arc BBs allow to win over vanilla FE much earlier (and cheapier).

Originally posted by Rock:

Also you should consider building Fort worlds. If you have a good chokepoint you can build a nice starbase there and a habitat and you colonize it and designate it as Fortress world. Build planetary shields there and just build strongholds there and upgrade them.

Honestly one Stronghold (+shield on frontier worlds) on every planet is usually much better safety measure.

[Rock]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Rock:

And since there is bunch of missiles in the battlefield the neutrons will most likely hit their targets.

Sigh. Neutrons are energy weapons and not affected by PD..

Huh, didn't notice that. Well that makes Neutrons REALLY good then.

Yeah I only play on Grand Admiral and honestly the arty fleet just kills everything. Fallen Empires or Crisis, doesn't matter. They get deleted. But things like Rapid Deployment, Juggernaut with range boost and maybe a Admiral with weapon range buff just makes the fleets that much more "unfair" :D

1 fort and shield won't hold out, it will save you from those random armies AI likes to fly around though, but not a dedicated invasion armies they usually have on stand by. You are paying 2 building slots per planet with that strat that could be used to producing dedicated resources. Though with frontier worlds you probably should do that anyway since we have to assume logistical reasons (reinforcement times) are coming into play here.

But on top of that if you build dedicated "Cadia"s on smart chokepoints you wouldn't even need to reinforce frontier planets because Fort worlds are very strong. Not even allowing the enemy further than 1 system is best defense. Several hundred K's worth of fleets sitting bombing a planet for DECADES is a good trade. It gives you so much more options with your fleets since you don't have to panic over the pesky AI's using gateways etc to try to always come from the rear and avoiding your fleets.
They want to bomb my Fort world for decades ? Fine I'll take their core sector meanwhile. Or bring my fleets over to Fort world and knock out their main fleets while they are stuck there. All the options are there.

Of course building Fort worlds are its own process. It takes time but once Fort worlds are online they will give incredible defense value. Plus soldier jobs produce naval cap by default which in turn lets you build even more fleets.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Rock:

1 fort and shield won't hold out, it will save you from those random armies AI likes to fly around though, but not a dedicated invasion armies they usually have on stand by. You are paying 2 building slots per planet with that strat that could be used to producing dedicated resources.

a) It's more then enough to get reinforcements from nearway Gateways.
b) Only 1 slot is wasted as I always need more Naval Capacity (as I'm usually playing with x25 crisis or x10 and all three crisises meaning they will be x10-x20-x40).

Originally posted by Rock:

But on top of that if you build dedicated "Cadia"s on smart chokepoints you wouldn't even need to reinforce frontier planets because Fort worlds are very strong.

Honestly? No, forts are very weak. Any high-class armies with high collateral damage butchering such fortress worlds casually like Abaddon did with real Cadia :)
So your only hope is to rely on AI usually being too dumb to use Xenomorphs or better armies.

Originally posted by Rock:

It gives you so much more options with your fleets since you don't have to panic over the pesky AI's using gateways etc to try to always come from the rear and avoiding your fleets.

No need to panic as I always have dedicated fleets defending Terminal Egress (only place where I have a real Fortress Worlds). They usually doing a deblocade mission.