How does secret fealty work?

[PackieTackie]

So some vassal of an empire pledged a secret fealty to me, I accepted, fast forward a decade they just declare a war of independence to their overlord without even inviting me to the war? How does it work really?

[Ryika]

You as the person who they have pledged to must declare a secret fealty war against their overlord and then they (and any other subjects of theirs that might also have sworn secret fealty to you) will join the war on your side. If you win, they become your subjects.

[Ogami]

You get a "Secret Fealty " Casus Beli on their overlord.
If you declare war on them all the vasalls that have a secret fealty with you will automatically join on your side in the war against their overlord and if you win the war they will become your vasalls instead.

[PackieTackie]

OHH, so I got a CB? dang I thought I must wait until they declare war themselves like in EU4

[Ogami]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

OHH, so I got a CB? dang I thought I must wait until they declare war themselves like in EU4

Nah, think about it. A secret fealty means they switch their alligance over to you and will support you if a war breaks out.
Them declaring war on their overlord means they are fighting for their liberation and dont want to be a vasall at all, so it makes no sense to involve you in that, you would be just another "master".

[PackieTackie]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

OHH, so I got a CB? dang I thought I must wait until they declare war themselves like in EU4

Nah, think about it. A secret fealty means they switch their alligance over to you and will support you if a war breaks out.
Them declaring war on their overlord means they are fighting for their liberation and dont want to be a vasall at all, so it makes no sense to involve you in that, you would be just another "master".

I see, thx for the advice. one more thing what if I use the Subjugation CB against an Empire that has it's own vassal? Will the vassals be independent, be my vassals, or maybe said empire will be a vassal of mine while keeping their vassals?

[Ogami]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

I see, thx for the advice. one more thing what if I use the Subjugation CB against an Empire that has it's own vassal? Will the vassals be independent, be my vassals, or maybe said empire will be a vassal of mine while keeping their vassals?

In my experience they will refuse the subjugation, even if you have enough "points" and its in the green. There is a large penalty anyway because they are a overlord.
I honestly never managed to subjugate a empire that had vasalls, it always refused even if the prediction of the diplomatic action was in the green.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

OHH, so I got a CB? dang I thought I must wait until they declare war themselves like in EU4

You can do that too with "Support Independence." That puts the CB into the AI's hands. They can suck you into a war whenever they feel like it. Secret Fealty can be done whenever you feel like.

There's no game reason to end a secret fealty and the AI will not take "no" for an answer. If you try to end it, they'll just keep coming back over and over.

[PackieTackie]

Originally posted by Ogami:

In my experience they will refuse the subjugation, even if you have enough "points" and its in the green. There is a large penalty anyway because they are a overlord.
I honestly never managed to subjugate a empire that had vasalls, it always refused even if the prediction of the diplomatic action was in the green.

What I mean is, declaring war to subjugate them, not diplomatically asking them to be my vassal

[PackieTackie]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

OHH, so I got a CB? dang I thought I must wait until they declare war themselves like in EU4

You can do that too with "Support Independence." That puts the CB into the AI's hands. They can suck you into a war whenever they feel like it. Secret Fealty can be done whenever you feel like.

There's no game reason to end a secret fealty and the AI will not take "no" for an answer. If you try to end it, they'll just keep coming back over and over.

Do you mean Guarantee Independence? I kinda do that to gain trust with others

[Ogami]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

What I mean is, declaring war to subjugate them, not diplomatically asking them to be my vassal

Oh, yeah. They become your vasalls.

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Do you mean Guarantee Independence? I kinda do that to gain trust with others

There should be another option if they are a vasall called " Support Independence".
If you do that you automatically join on their side if they start a liberation war against their overlord.
You wont get anything out of that war if you win except a new independant empire that likes you very much for helping liberating them.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Ogami:

In my experience they will refuse the subjugation, even if you have enough "points" and its in the green. There is a large penalty anyway because they are a overlord.
I honestly never managed to subjugate a empire that had vasalls, it always refused even if the prediction of the diplomatic action was in the green.

In my current game, I forced surrender and got two vassals for the price of one. It brought a radically xenophobic prikkian mini-state into my federation. After a while, I dropped the vassal and ejected them from the federation. I can't recall if the junior vassal had to be fully occupied or not. But I was on a mission and it turned out the vassal I was already carrying had made so many territorial claims on them that I pretty much had to take everything, keeping only the scraps as a new vassal.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Do you mean Guarantee Independence? I kinda do that to gain trust with others

No, that is a one-sided defensive pact. You go to war if someone else declares war on the guaranteed subject. That's best used when you're the big fish in the pond and for whatever reason you want to keep a smaller buffer state around. Or... y'know... sometimes in order to raise the risk of getting sucked into weird wars.

"Support Independence" should be an option for any vassal, even inside of a federation. You say "hey these guys should really be independent" and they take that as a commitment, which they invoke when it's convenient to them. This game, I'd supported the independence of a rouge servitor's vassal and they revolted while I was at war with them, creating this weird little second war I had to keep fighting when the larger coalition war was over.

[PackieTackie]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Do you mean Guarantee Independence? I kinda do that to gain trust with others

No, that is a one-sided defensive pact. You go to war if someone else declares war on the guaranteed subject. That's best used when you're the big fish in the pond and for whatever reason you want to keep a smaller buffer state around. Or... y'know... sometimes in order to raise the risk of getting sucked into weird wars.

"Support Independence" should be an option for any vassal, even inside of a federation. You say "hey these guys should really be independent" and they take that as a commitment, which they invoke when it's convenient to them. This game, I'd supported the independence of a rouge servitor's vassal and they revolted while I was at war with them, creating this weird little second war I had to keep fighting when the larger coalition war was over.

Oh I mustve missed the option then, I'll check it out when I got my hands on the game again

[Geoff]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Oh I mustve missed the option then, I'll check it out when I got my hands on the game again

I'm pretty sure that "support independence" replaces "guarantee independence" when they get vassalized. Since they no longer have independence to be guaranteed. So, basically watch the same space.