Question about offering subjugation

[LordofBargo]

So I'm just a bit confused. I've offered an empire subjugation 4 times. Each time they've said no despite having a check mark indicating that they would accept my offer. At least, that's what I thought, given my experiences within other paradox titles. What am I doing wrong? Can I not diplomatically take over these puny xenos, a fraction of my power, the scum on my heel?

[Tennessee]

this just happened to me a few times with two different empires, eventially one accepted but it was many years later and a bunch of influence wasted, googled it and got to your post, no idea whats up

[LordofBargo]

Originally posted by Tennessee:

this just happened to me a few times with two different empires, eventially one accepted but it was many years later and a bunch of influence wasted, googled it and got to your post, no idea whats up

So I believe if they're an overlord they'll generally reject it. At least that's my hypothesis.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by TheMasterChief:

Originally posted by Tennessee:

this just happened to me a few times with two different empires, eventially one accepted but it was many years later and a bunch of influence wasted, googled it and got to your post, no idea whats up

So I believe if they're an overlord they'll generally reject it. At least that's my hypothesis.

I've watched overlord neighbors subjugate themselves to other AI empires. In the context where it happened to me, it left their vassal high and dry - a machine civ that had eaten some pre-FTLs I'd been watching. Which definitely doesn't mean you're wrong, but I've definitely dived for some jump balls left when a neighbor with subjects sought a bigger empire's protection.

[felmari]

not that they reject it that they have a -1000 acceptance with it as well in federations. i have yet to be able to overcome -1000 let alone other modifiers that can add to it. the problem is this can be two one system empires which does not make sense should be some kind of combined power calculation.

[Argakyan]

Coming to Stellaris from Eu4 I can say that a check does not automatically mean the AI will accept an offer, merely that it will consider it at all. If you want to make sure that the AI will say yes, then you usually need to offer more than the minimum. To my experience the AI will accept subjugation (maybe always) if it's at least 20 in the greens. This can be done with for instance offering goods, then changing the deal after they accept.

[LordofBargo]

Originally posted by Argacyan:

Coming to Stellaris from Eu4 I can say that a check does not automatically mean the AI will accept an offer, merely that it will consider it at all. If you want to make sure that the AI will say yes, then you usually need to offer more than the minimum. To my experience the AI will accept subjugation (maybe always) if it's at least 20 in the greens. This can be done with for instance offering goods, then changing the deal after they accept.

I will say I had 200-300 positive for each offer. The only logical thing that made sense for me is that all the people I offered to were overlords in the late game and didn't want to give that up. The people I offered that weren't overlords accepted. I am thinking maybe it's similar to how in Ck2 and Ck3 there are political reasons that give a large negative modifier to acceptance but I'm not sure.

[LordofBargo]

Originally posted by TheMasterChief:

Originally posted by Argacyan:

Coming to Stellaris from Eu4 I can say that a check does not automatically mean the AI will accept an offer, merely that it will consider it at all. If you want to make sure that the AI will say yes, then you usually need to offer more than the minimum. To my experience the AI will accept subjugation (maybe always) if it's at least 20 in the greens. This can be done with for instance offering goods, then changing the deal after they accept.

I will say I had 200-300 positive for each offer. The only logical thing that made sense for me is that all the people I offered to were overlords in the late game and didn't want to give that up. The people I offered that weren't overlords accepted. I am thinking maybe it's similar to how in Ck2 and Ck3 there are political reasons that give a large negative modifier to acceptance but I'm not sure.

One of the people I offered that accepted that wasn't an overlord accepted at positive 72 for instance.

[LordofBargo]

Originally posted by Geoff:

Originally posted by TheMasterChief:

So I believe if they're an overlord they'll generally reject it. At least that's my hypothesis.

I've watched overlord neighbors subjugate themselves to other AI empires. In the context where it happened to me, it left their vassal high and dry - a machine civ that had eaten some pre-FTLs I'd been watching. Which definitely doesn't mean you're wrong, but I've definitely dived for some jump balls left when a neighbor with subjects sought a bigger empire's protection.

I agree with you on this. I think there are circumstances (such as when an AI empire is threatened by a larger empire) where they will do it despite being an overlord. I think my galaxy was just very tame and so no one wanted to do it.

[felmari]

for modifiers you can see them all where the x or checkmark is on the submit button by hovering over it.

[Shepard Drake]

I am having this problem too. The game is bugged, and Paradox is clearly too lazy to fix it.
I have lost hundreds and hundreds of influence putting forth numerous failed subjugation requests that the diplomacy shows they will accept, even up to 90+ over.

IF this is somehow a feature working "as intended", then it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. I can't go call up my alien neighbors on the phone to get a gauge on how they'll react, I literally only have what the game tells me, and the game ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tells me they will accept it, BY A LANDSLIDE. And yet, I still continue to waste hundreds and hundreds of influence on these failed attempts that the game is TELLING ME should work. It's absolutely infuriating, and I am at 50 years left until 2500 (end of game), and I am neck and neck with an awakened empire who now might beat me ♥♥♥♥ like the subjugation isn't working properly.

[CrUsHeR]

If the acceptance is "green" and they still refuse, there is only one explanation:

There is a delay between sending the offer and the other empire replying. If the acceptance drops to 0 or negative during this delay, they will refuse.

So make sure there is no negative trend, and the acceptance is not too low.

[HyperKnight]

There are two ways to be sure: when AI empire offers to become your vassal and when you vassalize them through war.
Proposing them to become vassal peacefully can fail for no written reason.

[CrUsHeR]

No i'm pretty sure that the acceptance is binary.

Either the acceptance is above 0 = it always succeeds
Or the acceptance is 0 or below = it always fails

So this is a clear yes/no proposal, not a chance-based system like when asking CK3 vassals to convert or have their title revoked.