What are your thoughts on Galactic Paragons

[Carog the Fat]

As a robot leading robots across the stars it looks like hive minds will lose out from the current info as the paragons are all organic. The other question that came to mind is what does it add how does it make leaders more impacting, the science leader seem to just replace the various scientists with the same bonuses.

The trickle of info isn't good I understand trying to build hype but so soon after a DLC it isn't working for me.

[Terijian]

When I first heard about it my reaction was something like really guys thats your next thing >_>
but after reading the dev diaries I'm actually kinda excited for it

Seemed boring at first cuz leaders are mostly something I barely pay attention to, but seems like now they will be something I want to pay attention to.

so generally I'm looking forward to it.

the only thing I'm worried about is low replay value. like meeting new species after first contact was super interesting for a couple games, then it just became something to click thru without reading. So I hope they can avoid that pitfall somehow

[Carog the Fat]

Everything becomes a click through eventually, it is more does it make the player stop and think or is it a brainless yes I want the genius researcher.

[Terijian]

I mean its 'yes I want the genius researcher' now so I doubt it will be worse

[VoiD]

Kinda looking forward more to the ground combat and UI rework/changes, but the leaders are nice too.

[Bisexual Offender]

They only work for egalitarian xenophile star trek federation type empire. Everyone else you are forsed into picking roleplay vs big numbers.
This whole DLC is done better by a mod Star oath project.
Same system for free.

[Terijian]

theres paragons or whatever for every ethic so not really

[Xautos]

Having looked a bit at the few details offered, it seem alright. I would still like to know more, since clearly there are some mechanics not yet explained that will clearly have a longer lasting effect on a player empire.

[monkeypunch87]

I don't like that the paragons are set characters, which always look the same with the same backstory and the same traits.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

The game already had leaders with preset traits and backstory that you could get through events, Grey, Caretaker AX7-b, Reth Unddol Leviathan Hunter, just to mention a few, the developers only expanded and improved the set.

[monkeypunch87]

Originally posted by Static-ghost:

The game already had leaders with preset traits and backstory that you could get through events, Grey, Caretaker AX7-b, Reth Unddol Leviathan Hunter, just to mention a few, the developers only expanded and improved the set.

Not really the same in my opinion.
The paragons you can get are tied to you ethics. I like to play a certain ethic. Now, in every game, I will encounter the same two paragons. I don't encounter Grey, Caretaker AX7-b, Reth Unddol Leviathan Hunter in every game, I don't even know the Leviathan Hunter.

[CBR JGWRR]

I REALLY dislike the reducing the number of Leaders aspect; even if we assume they are "one in a billion, perfect freaks of nature" level good, we should have ten or so kicking around at the start of the game. A lategame empire could have thousands of Leaders on such a standard.

I.e. being realistic, such an insanely high standard as the game is looking to reduce to means unless a scientist STARTS as a omnidisciplinary Maniacal Genius Meticulous Roamer, they wouldn't even qualify to be a Scientist Leader.

Genghis Khan might not qualify as a good enough General, Yi Sun-Shin not a good enough Admiral, so high is such a standard. It breaks any kind of immersion for a role-player when you think it through.

And as for gameplay? Let's face it, it won't reduce the number of Leaders you have; there's still so much you need them for, especially now they are making Governors be able to be assigned to individual planets. So, that change is one that no one benefits from, and the first mod I'll be doing on release is making Leader upkeep 0 so that I can ignore the change.

I would go the opposite way, remove Pops (nice idea in principle, but in practice it's just a source of lag, and there are better ways to manage what they represent) and remake Leaders into Citizens, and have orders of magnitude more of them so that Citizens function as what Pops and Leaders were before.

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This aside, the changes to give Leaders a bit more interest are a step in the right direction, and I'm sure some players will buy it just for the ability to pick the traits of your Leaders yourself.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

Originally posted by monkeypunch87:

I don't even know the Leviathan Hunter.

Reth Unddol is a humanoid orc alien whose ship appears after killing the Tiyanki Matriarch. Reth had tried to hunt the matriarch to get revenge for the death of his last crew but was swallowed whole and trapped in the leviathan's belly.

[gobbibomb]

That will buy.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Bezyn:

They only work for egalitarian xenophile star trek federation type empire. Everyone else you are forsed into picking roleplay vs big numbers.
This whole DLC is done better by a mod Star oath project.
Same system for free.

Misinformation here.

No, Xenophobes don't get shafted (Although if you are a Fanatic Purifier you'll probably not get any Paragons... for Obvious Reasons), there are two Paragons for the Xenophobe Ethic, just like there are two for Xenophile, Two for Egalitarian, two for Militarist... and so on... only Gestalts get shafted with no Paragons, and no replacement system has been talked about for Gestalts, they also get shafted with Destiny Traits (But apparently do get a second Epic Trait on their leaders to compensate)

[wildlifeluvr]

Originally posted by Carog the Fat:

Everything becomes a click through eventually, it is more does it make the player stop and think or is it a brainless yes I want the genius researcher.

In Stellaris, in every Paradox game, like the repetitive "rowdy dude at the saloon" in CK III you have over and over and over, there is like a "decision tree" for every story, RP, etc but it is only 2 deep with no mutually exclusive branching.

A good example in Stellaris are the Traditions. Each tradition has 5 but you get all five for each one; there is ZERO decisions to be made like "Do I choose this branch or that branch" that are mutually exclusive. You simply complete all 5. There is ZERO pondering and decision making of what route/branch to take, just bide your time until you finish the 5th one.

In Hearts of Iron IV, there is some mutually exclusive decision trees but far to little.

For real playability, a game like Stellaris (all games like this really) the developers would have to do decision trees, rolls, random number generator multi-branched story lines with many trees.

The time to write and code all that? A lot. I have always thought that the developers for many games should just call a halt to all art changes, new characters, call a halt to Everything and devote 100% of the development to expanding GREATLY the decision trees for every single action taken and make them branch off to MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE lines where you must make hard decisions.

If random number generators used with momentum increases and decreases, it could be that a game could be replayed many 100s of times, a 1,000 times, and never be the same game as before.

This would make the game AWESOME ... too awesome from the view of the CEO of the companies that develop the games because all a player would need his whole life is one uber-awesome game with 100% replayability. They don't do this because companies must sell new games to keep the enterprise going.