Blood, Sweat, Tears, Bankruptcy, Stellaris (A Debate)

[HybridReaper]

So I've played Stellaris for a few years now and recently made the turn back to PC. Now I knew I payed a lot for the game over the course of it's life but damn.... I'm not paying over $300 just to access content I already own on something else. While It would be awesome to play it with current content and updates, how do you justify making my total spent on the game over $600. A SINGLE GAME..... for near the price of a console system. LOL

Until the game has a 80% sale or implements some form of user loyalty program, wont be buying it again. As someone familiar with Stellaris: Paradox tends to make some of my favourite games in recent years but I think their games are also perfect examples at charging way too much for far too little content.

[Ryika]

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

I mean yea it still is scummy but other games aren’t $300 for the full experience.

I don't really see what the price has to do with it. $300 may be a lot of money for you, for someone else it's something they don't even think about. $50 may not be much for you, but for somebody else it may be a big investment.

If you really want to tie it to the amount that the "full experience" costs, then that seems like it's inherently subjective - and if it's subjective, you don't really have a case of it being scummy in any meaningful way.

And that's again ignoring the fact that there are somewhat frequent sales with big discounts.

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

I didn’t think i would get a free pc version but i also didn’t think that at the time of purchase that console was a few versions behind, and had to wait an extra year for content release.

I mean fair enough, but if that's a dealbreaker, you should not have bought the console edition. It's not like they're hiding the fact that the console edition is behind the PC edition, and there's a justification for it too, since the patches require additional development to work on console.

It's not an argument for why you should also get the PC version though.

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

As i bought the content packs over the period of probably 2 years i never gave it much thought. Now seeing it at face value and having played for probably around 700 hrs, i wouldn’t recommend buying this game unless you know someone who owns it all already.
Reality is i don’t think you’re getting enough game for what you pay.

Well, lots of people disagree. And it's not like it's a bad deal anyway - if you're a guy who plays the game regularly and buys each DLC on release, the business model can in essence be translated as a ~$5 monthly subscription for the continued development.

Of course that's not the situation you personally are in, but it does put your general claims into perspective.

[HybridReaper]

Immortalis の投稿を引用：

First of all, you not checking what you were buying is a you problem.

But let's draw a comparison: FIFA has released one game a year since 1995 and that's only in their main title (thus excluding things lika FIFA Street and the World Cup editions); from 2016 (when Stellaris was released) they published 7 titles + a mobile game (which we're going to ignore).
Assuming a price tag of 60$ per title, that's 420$ in total.

In the same time frame we had 9 Call of Duty games + a mobile release; again, assuming 60$ per game that would be 540$.

First point is valid cant fault you there but i do wish it was more explicit in the fact console is behind. Stellaris was my first Paradox buy and later found out that whole PC exclusivity thing. Perhaps this is more accurately a Microsoft issue than a Paradox one i guess.
Also comparing Stellaris to multiple full release games isn't fair its not nearly the same. Not to mention i don't play Fifa, Madden, CoD, etc. Constant content isn't good content imo.
In my head I place Paradox games in a different category entirely because of how the game functions. It in technical aspects isn't as complex as an FPS, and isn't difficult to adjust the health and damage values for units in game. All you're paying for is really some new skins and changes to balancing.
League of Legends for example is free and has basically the same content release: skins and balancing. And yes i know they have micro transactions but still the fact that a game can be free to play and have a store isn't really that bad. Or CSGO, a game that is free and i paid for one crate key. Micro transactions are a whole other can of aids i don't need to open right now though, I seem to have punted a wasp nest in this chat.

[Dustreaper]

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

Elitewrecker PT の投稿を引用：

Then keep go.back to the console version. It'll get the new updates eventually.

I might once a year when they drop new content but im hesitant to buy any more DLC. Not worth it at this point. Might as well wait till the game dies and the price drops. If i gotta wait 15 years then so be it. Sucks because I know people who would be totally into the game. But as soon as i mention how the content works for DLC and what it would cost for it all kills the idea.

Well if you want to play with friends only 1 needs to buy the dlc and host the game then other can play all the dlc's the host has for free.

[HybridReaper]

Dustreaper の投稿を引用：

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

I might once a year when they drop new content but im hesitant to buy any more DLC. Not worth it at this point. Might as well wait till the game dies and the price drops. If i gotta wait 15 years then so be it. Sucks because I know people who would be totally into the game. But as soon as i mention how the content works for DLC and what it would cost for it all kills the idea.

Well if you want to play with friends only 1 needs to buy the dlc and host the game then other can play all the dlc's the host has for free.

I asked like 5 people and they all said nah. None of them want to buy a $300 game. Said it looks cool but not worth it.

[HybridReaper]

Ryika の投稿を引用：

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

I mean yea it still is scummy but other games aren’t $300 for the full experience.

I don't really see what the price has to do with it. $300 may be a lot of money for you, for someone else it's something they don't even think about. $50 may not be much for you, but for somebody else it may be a big investment.

If you really want to tie it to the amount that the "full experience" costs, then that seems like it's inherently subjective - and if it's subjective, you don't really have a case of it being scummy in any meaningful way.

And that's again ignoring the fact that there are somewhat frequent sales with big discounts.

That's one of the major problems i think game corporations have is the subjective value of content. Like how Anthem released a deluxe edition for a bastardised game swiftly abandoned after release. Before it died they dropped the price to try and get more people. A games pricetag is placed only where they can make the most cash reasonably. Micro transactions gave companies unregulated cash flow and allowed the owners to capitalise quick. I think that's the only time people started to realise how badly game companies and the others who take a cut were milking them.
You're right in the whole subjective sense of the scummy bit but that was the whole point of this thread: to generate conversation and get a feel for what the community thinks.

[Soul]

The extra paid content is there so people with too much money on their hands can fund continued development, free updates, and QoL fixes for those of us who don't have hundreds of dollars to spend on pc games. Good enough for me man.

[𝒞𝒶𝓉𝓎𝒶ꨄ]

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

So I've played Stellaris for a few years now and recently made the turn back to PC. Now I knew I payed a lot for the game over the course of it's life but damn.... I'm not paying over $300 just to access content I already own on something else. While It would be awesome to play it with current content and updates, how do you justify making my total spent on the game over $600. A SINGLE GAME..... for near the price of a console system. LOL

Until the game has a 80% sale or implements some form of user loyalty program, wont be buying it again. As someone familiar with Stellaris: Paradox tends to make some of my favourite games in recent years but I think their games are also perfect examples at charging way too much for far too little content.

Truth is though, that amount of money being a lot or not really so much is subjective to personal opinion, situation and priorities. Also if tight on budget, i'd still not complain about the price.

It's not charity, and it's not like food and water, not a human right to own. So what is Stellaris? A luxury entertainment product. And owners of such, can decide their prices and players decide if worth or not.

Can either complain that things cost money in the world, or just get them. Yeah, it's several years worth of products (DLC) if plans to buy all at once.

But i started to play this year (2023) as a new player and owned nothing, so i had huge amount of DLC to buy on top of the base game. So as someone who is literally unemployed, i don't have huge amount of money and the savings i had was for buying a new gaming setup (and i did this summer, 2k eur gaming pc, not most expensive, but also not bad specs at all).

I did personally made a plan to buy ALL of the Stellaris DLC during Steam sales, and did, during 4 months time i did go from Base game to owning ALL dlc. Between sales i admit i bought couple DLC in full price even tho, because had no patience to wait. :D

But yeah.. if an unemployed person with actual ZERO job income (no side hustles lmao) can get Stellaris and all DLC bought, so can anyone. I also bought the 2k gaming pc and, Baldur's Gate 3, also 100eur worth of GW2 expansions etc, all during the summer.

How?

Well, for one i do not spend money on alcohol or restaurants or ordering food. I cook my own food. My friend who parties all the time.. she is always broke lmao. So i end up saving money month by month, then can occasionally buy things i need, like new phone or new gaming pc, I don't go to parties, i play at home, comfy.. So i can spend the money i have on entertainment, like games and streaming services, that i got all the usual Netflix, HBO, Disney+ oh and gym membership is like 39eur per month etc. Antisocial egirl life besides gym, but not there to chat but to do them good workouts haha. So i just play games and watch series and movies all days. Best life tbh. :D

But never had to complain games and stuff costs money. I know realities of businesses. Due to the inflation and current situation since the real world economics, companies most often pay more for their running costs also, same as us normal people lately (with the energy crisis prices etc) and have to had raise salaries for employees so they can pay their bills also. So yeah, luxury products costs some money. Either buy or not. But it's imo is not some ideological issue. Most often just for each person to decide their own spending habits and priorities. As said, if i can manage to buy all that, so can anyone tbh.

[HybridReaper]

Lelu💜 の投稿を引用：

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

So I've played Stellaris for a few years now and recently made the turn back to PC. Now I knew I payed a lot for the game over the course of it's life but damn.... I'm not paying over $300 just to access content I already own on something else. While It would be awesome to play it with current content and updates, how do you justify making my total spent on the game over $600. A SINGLE GAME..... for near the price of a console system. LOL

Until the game has a 80% sale or implements some form of user loyalty program, wont be buying it again. As someone familiar with Stellaris: Paradox tends to make some of my favourite games in recent years but I think their games are also perfect examples at charging way too much for far too little content.

Truth is though, that amount of money being a lot or not really so much is subjective to personal opinion, situation and priorities. Also if tight on budget, i'd still not complain about the price.

It's not charity, and it's not like food and water, not a human right to own. So what is Stellaris? A luxury entertainment product. And owners of such, can decide their prices and players decide if worth or not.

Can either complain that things cost money in the world, or just get them. Yeah, it's several years worth of products (DLC) if plans to buy all at once.

But i started to play this year (2023) as a new player and owned nothing, so i had huge amount of DLC on top of base game. So as someone who is literally unemployed, i don't have huge amount of money and the savings i had was for buying a new gaming setup (and i did this summer, 2k eur gaming pc, not most expensive, but also not bad specs at all).

I did personally made a plan to buy ALL of the Stellaris DLC during Steam sales, and did, during 4 months time i did go from Base game to owning ALL dlc. Between sales i admit i bought couple DLC in full price even tho, because had no patience to wait. :D

But yeah.. if an unemployed person with actual ZERO job income (no side hustles lmao) can get Stellaris and all DLC bought, so can anyone. I also bought the 2k gaming pc and, Baldur's Gate 3, also 100eur worth of GW2 expansions etc, all during the summer.

How?

Well, for one i do not spend money on alcohol or restaurants or ordering food. I cook my own food. My friend who parties all the time.. she is always broke lmao. So i end up saving money month by month, then can occasionally buy things i need, like new phone or new gaming oc, I don't go to parties, i play at home, comfy.. So i can spend the money i have on entertainment, like games and streaming services, that i got all the usual Netflix, HBO, Disney+ etc. Antisocial egirl life. So i just play games and watch series and movies all days. Best life tbh. :D

But never had to complain games and stuff costs money. I know realities of businesses. Due to the inflation and current situation since the real world economics, companies most often pay more for their running costs also, same as us normal people lately (with the energy crisis prices etc) and have to had raise salaries for employees so they can pay their bills also. So yeah, luxury products costs some money. Either buy or not. But it's imo is not some ideological issue. Most often just for each person to decide their own spending habits and priorities. As said, if i can manage to buy all that, so can anyone tbh.

Sounds like we're the same minus the E-girl bit. Its not a matter of if I can or cant get it but should I get it was my point. I argued no, and a large majority of people I asked personally said no $300 isn't worth it. My op might be a bit aggressive of a no but I wanted to see how other people into these style games felt and it sure worked :p .

[Geoff]

SaD-82 の投稿を引用：

And people have a right to comment in such threads.
So what exactly is your point, right now?

When you are replying to someone else's top post complaining about the burden their topic is to *you*, you are being a censorious troll. You're free to jump into conversations and try to shut them down, yes. And if you're doing that, you suck and should stop (but obviously won't).

[𝒞𝒶𝓉𝓎𝒶ꨄ]

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

Lelu💜 の投稿を引用：

Truth is though, that amount of money being a lot or not really so much is subjective to personal opinion, situation and priorities. Also if tight on budget, i'd still not complain about the price.

It's not charity, and it's not like food and water, not a human right to own. So what is Stellaris? A luxury entertainment product. And owners of such, can decide their prices and players decide if worth or not.

Can either complain that things cost money in the world, or just get them. Yeah, it's several years worth of products (DLC) if plans to buy all at once.

But i started to play this year (2023) as a new player and owned nothing, so i had huge amount of DLC on top of base game. So as someone who is literally unemployed, i don't have huge amount of money and the savings i had was for buying a new gaming setup (and i did this summer, 2k eur gaming pc, not most expensive, but also not bad specs at all).

I did personally made a plan to buy ALL of the Stellaris DLC during Steam sales, and did, during 4 months time i did go from Base game to owning ALL dlc. Between sales i admit i bought couple DLC in full price even tho, because had no patience to wait. :D

But yeah.. if an unemployed person with actual ZERO job income (no side hustles lmao) can get Stellaris and all DLC bought, so can anyone. I also bought the 2k gaming pc and, Baldur's Gate 3, also 100eur worth of GW2 expansions etc, all during the summer.

How?

Well, for one i do not spend money on alcohol or restaurants or ordering food. I cook my own food. My friend who parties all the time.. she is always broke lmao. So i end up saving money month by month, then can occasionally buy things i need, like new phone or new gaming oc, I don't go to parties, i play at home, comfy.. So i can spend the money i have on entertainment, like games and streaming services, that i got all the usual Netflix, HBO, Disney+ etc. Antisocial egirl life. So i just play games and watch series and movies all days. Best life tbh. :D

But never had to complain games and stuff costs money. I know realities of businesses. Due to the inflation and current situation since the real world economics, companies most often pay more for their running costs also, same as us normal people lately (with the energy crisis prices etc) and have to had raise salaries for employees so they can pay their bills also. So yeah, luxury products costs some money. Either buy or not. But it's imo is not some ideological issue. Most often just for each person to decide their own spending habits and priorities. As said, if i can manage to buy all that, so can anyone tbh.

Sounds like we're the same minus the E-girl bit. Its not a matter of if I can or cant get it but should I get it was my point. I argued no, and a large majority of people I asked personally said no $300 isn't worth it. My op might be a bit aggressive of a no but I wanted to see how other people into these style games felt and it sure worked :p .

Yeah well, good forum content is always good. ^^

Still, if enjoys the (any equivalent also) product, i'd say the 300eur is totally worth it, especially if CAN get it. It can be hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment, single playing or multiplayer with friends.

I'd say worth it. Maybe not for someone who mostly play other types of games way more. But for 4x space enthusiasts (i'm a new at that, did not even know i liked these kind of games before i tried Stellaris the first time, i had played some turn-based strategy games with my big brother tho, who was based to teach me such when i was like 10-12yr old already haha) there really is not much choices, and the competing games don't have all the same things or feeling. Some games have certain feeling while playing that cannot describe quite well, but you just notice that have played 12 hours without remembering to eat in between. :P And tired, but got the "i'll just do this one war to finish, then to bed.." then 5 hours later still playing. :D

So yeah, Stellaris has that thing going for it. So personally would cough up the money again if switched platforms.

Yes, in ideal world would be cool to have already a "Essentials" (top 5 most "wanted" DLC) package always 24/7 in a fair price in shop through the year. Even if it meant then raising all the other DLC price a bit for Paradox to make same revenue.

We both know one can get quite good gaming experience with Stellaris if you pick 5 favorite DLC. Then get rest later on next Sale. I bought on 2 sales. Sales are every 3 months pretty much, so predictable when can buy them all cheap, so can plan/save in advance.

So especially with sale price, worth it. It is the gigachad move. It stings only once. Then after bought can tell yourself it was an investment for entertainment. Also no hangover like from a long night out. :P People often easily spend hundreds on some crazy weekends parties with friends, but when buys game that can last for years instead of a day or two.. then make a huge deal out of it that it costs money. :D

Once has used to having all DLC, there is no going back to base game or just few, gotta have them all. I know. I'd personally decline playing some barbaric peasant version without all DLC. :P

[HybridReaper]

Lelu💜 の投稿を引用：

12 hours without remembering to eat in between. :P And tired, but got the "i'll just do this one war to finish, then to bed.." then 5 hours later still playing.

Okay so its not just me who has a problem... phew

[HybridReaper]

Geoff の投稿を引用：

SaD-82 の投稿を引用：

And people have a right to comment in such threads.
So what exactly is your point, right now?

When you are replying to someone else's top post complaining about the burden their topic is to *you*, you are being a censorious troll. You're free to jump into conversations and try to shut them down, yes. And if you're doing that, you suck and should stop (but obviously won't).

All hail lord Geoff, defender of the people <3

[Geoff]

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

All hail lord Geoff, defender of the people <3

There's no way to make the swarm go away, but I hope it helps to know you're not alone. Cuz that's the main goal of the swarming tactic. I don't have any fixed opinions on the optimal pricing scheme for the title, but I appreciate hearing thoughtful opinions about them. So, thanks for sharing yours and sorry for.... y'know... all the grief piled on you for daring to state your mind on Game Break Day 3.9.

[Geoff]

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

Lelu💜 の投稿を引用：

12 hours without remembering to eat in between. :P And tired, but got the "i'll just do this one war to finish, then to bed.." then 5 hours later still playing.

Okay so its not just me who has a problem... phew

I've been so good. I put off triggering the Human Civil War until I got all of the day's errands and chores done. Fired up the save and already the would-be usurprers of the Galactic Throne are mouthing off and squaring up. Should be an epic evening ahead.

[HybridReaper]

Geoff の投稿を引用：

HybridReaper の投稿を引用：

All hail lord Geoff, defender of the people <3

There's no way to make the swarm go away, but I hope it helps to know you're not alone. Cuz that's the main goal of the swarming tactic. I don't have any fixed opinions on the optimal pricing scheme for the title, but I appreciate hearing thoughtful opinions about them. So, thanks for sharing yours and sorry for.... y'know... all the grief piled on you for daring to state your mind on Game Break Day 3.9.

I'm all for back and forth on different opinions but how its approached is crucial. I started the discussion a bit hard since that tends to get people worked up and want to post. So cant say I didn't ask for this lmao.