Ascension paths tierlist?

[TommyFortress]

What are you guys opinions on the 4 diffrient ascenscion paths? How good are they vs the others? What build's do they fit?
I usually play Bionic ascension and sometimes psionic but then i always end up being spiritual.

[HappySack]

Since the ascension rework they've all been buffed to be more on par with Synthetic, Psionic is still the strongest early on while Genetic is the strongest overall if you micromanage everything otherwise it's on par with Synthetic.

Cybernetic is the weakest since you get penalized for taking cybernetic traits so it's a lot more niche and pretty much only used for trade value builds.

[VoiD]

Synth is still just as powerful as ever, but it's balanced by the fact that it comes in very, very late, it's also nice to turn all those ♥♥♥♥♥♥ xenos, when you're not xenophobic or authoritarian, into a single, hyper productive pop too.

Nowadays I have no idea, but I'd lean heavily towards Psionic being the best overall, though bio has some neat traits and with the new origin it can stack some crazy specialized bonuses like Intelligent+Augmented Intelligence+Elevated Synapses, which is nutts.

If only the pop priorities were better and made sure only the best pops for each jobs were used, this path would be incredible.

[Willem]

Psionic is the Strongest, but luck based even if you go Teachers of the Shroud Origin, it's still a shroud gamble to achieve what you want (Instrument of Desire is the best pick for Shroud Patron because of that 10% resource output bonus and if you can stack Chosen One and Chosen of the Shroud Patron on the same leader the bonuses become ABSURD), Genetic is slightly weaker than Psionic at its most powerful, but a lot more stable than Psionic (Especially with the Overtuned Origin, you'll be able to get at it faster), Synthetic has been reduced to one of the weakest ones because it takes longer to get than the others and the bonuses are not as good as they once were, and Cybernetic is eh... it's decent: But the lack of Genetic Resequencing technologies to remove positive traits means you'll never be able to remove any beneficial traits you add, Limiting its use.

[Tragopan]

Synthetic is clearly the strongest still since it's the only one that allows you to do the whole galaxy a favor by reducing species lag. :>

[TommyFortress]

Originally posted by Tragopan:

Synthetic is clearly the strongest still since it's the only one that allows you to do the whole galaxy a favor by reducing species lag. :>

how does it reduce that?

[CrUsHeR]

Genetic is cleary the worst. At least for the MC empires i'm playing.


> No global pop output bonus (except 5% from Robust for 4 points, compared to others getting between +15% to +25% for free)

> Food cost/upkeep for Clone Vats are obscene during the early game

> Unjustified high requirement for the ascension perk (T3 compared to T2 for Cybernetic)

> Newly acquired / immigrated pops don't get assimilated; i.e. no inherent effect of the entire ascension for unmodded pops

> Extreme special project costs for gene-modding due to exchanging all traits of a species

> Leaders get absolutely no leader traits without their species being Erudite (which is 4 wasted modding points and 1 wasted pick for the vast majority of your population)

> Paired with the worst leader traits across the board


---------


Ascension Trait Comparison, Genetic vs Cybernetic:

-Erudite Governors give +5% researcher output, so this is a dud in sectors without research production.
-Cyborg Governors give -10% upkeep, which affects every single pop and gets very notable from stacking with other upkeep effects.

-Erudite Admirals give 10% Fire Rate and 10% Disengagement Chance.
-Cyborg Admirals give 10% Damage and 10% Range (clear winner with WW/Hangar Battleships)

-Erudite Ruler gives +1 Research Altenatives which is great as long as you are still fishing for key technologies, but afterwards does nothing at all.
-Cyborg Ruler gives -25% building and district upkeep. This flows through your entire economy, from the expensive Ring World / Ecu districts down to the Refineries and Mining Districts feeding them.

-Scientists are identical (and Generals largely irrelevant)


---------


Now technically, Psionic with Whisperers and Zroni wins. Due to a number of reasons, like the global output bonus from telepaths, combined with significant unity and research output from telepaths, the Sanctum making your capital incredibly effiicient with 3 extra telepath jobs, and indeed telepaths working practically for free.
Psionic Shields and Jump Drive giving a clear naval superiority. Free +2 and +15% influence. And so on.

However, this combo requires a specially-tailored empire to maximize the odds for the Whisperers, and using a mod to trigger the Zroni precursor.
So the real winner is:


---------


Cybernetics.


> This is what you get just from the tradition & assimilation, without doing anything:

# 10% global output and 5% specialist output (effectively 15% before traits)
# +40 years lifespan
# +20% habitability
# -10% pop upkeep
# 10% army damage
# all ruler/leader bonuses listed above

> pop assembly cost isn't exactly cheap, though greatly alleviated by all the upkeep reductions

> lowest perk requirement + cheap ascension project

> extremely cheap pop modding special projects

> amazing cyborg traits, like double trade value, double research, whatever you want

> has a built-in ethics attraction towards materialism (very easy to get rid of e.g. conquered spiritualist ethics in your empire) especially if you can also keep at least 1 robot on every planet


---------


Synthetic is good per se, but has two problems:

1) It comes way too late into play, sometimes you can fish for the required techs for decades

2) Pop assimilation is borked since patch 3.6, as assimilated pops now become the basic, unmodded version of your Synth species without traits. Modding them into your proper custom version stacks to extremely long amounts later in the game.

[HappySack]

Originally posted by TommyFortress:

how does it reduce that?

The more species there are the more lag is created which is why xeno-compatbility is so notoriously bad.

At least with Synthetic you can assimilate everyone into your superior robot species, and possibly only make a second research robot.

[MAG]

What uplift would be best for fanatic purifiers?

[TommyFortress]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Genetic is cleary the worst. At least for the MC empires i'm playing.


> No global pop output bonus (except 5% from Robust for 4 points, compared to others getting between +15% to +25% for free)

> Food cost/upkeep for Clone Vats are obscene during the early game

> Unjustified high requirement for the ascension perk (T3 compared to T2 for Cybernetic)

> Newly acquired / immigrated pops don't get assimilated; i.e. no inherent effect of the entire ascension for unmodded pops

> Extreme special project costs for gene-modding due to exchanging all traits of a species

> Leaders get absolutely no leader traits without their species being Erudite (which is 4 wasted modding points and 1 wasted pick for the vast majority of your population)

> Paired with the worst leader traits across the board


---------


Ascension Trait Comparison, Genetic vs Cybernetic:

-Erudite Governors give +5% researcher output, so this is a dud in sectors without research production.
-Cyborg Governors give -10% upkeep, which affects every single pop and gets very notable from stacking with other upkeep effects.

-Erudite Admirals give 10% Fire Rate and 10% Disengagement Chance.
-Cyborg Admirals give 10% Damage and 10% Range (clear winner with WW/Hangar Battleships)

-Erudite Ruler gives +1 Research Altenatives which is great as long as you are still fishing for key technologies, but afterwards does nothing at all.
-Cyborg Ruler gives -25% building and district upkeep. This flows through your entire economy, from the expensive Ring World / Ecu districts down to the Refineries and Mining Districts feeding them.

-Scientists are identical (and Generals largely irrelevant)


---------


Now technically, Psionic with Whisperers and Zroni wins. Due to a number of reasons, like the global output bonus from telepaths, combined with significant unity and research output from telepaths, the Sanctum making your capital incredibly effiicient with 3 extra telepath jobs, and indeed telepaths working practically for free.
Psionic Shields and Jump Drive giving a clear naval superiority. Free +2 and +15% influence. And so on.

However, this combo requires a specially-tailored empire to maximize the odds for the Whisperers, and using a mod to trigger the Zroni precursor.
So the real winner is:


---------


Cybernetics.


> This is what you get just from the tradition & assimilation, without doing anything:

# 10% global output and 5% specialist output (effectively 15% before traits)
# +40 years lifespan
# +20% habitability
# -10% pop upkeep
# 10% army damage
# all ruler/leader bonuses listed above

> pop assembly cost isn't exactly cheap, though greatly alleviated by all the upkeep reductions

> lowest perk requirement + cheap ascension project

> extremely cheap pop modding special projects

> amazing cyborg traits, like double trade value, double research, whatever you want

> has a built-in ethics attraction towards materialism (very easy to get rid of e.g. conquered spiritualist ethics in your empire) especially if you can also keep at least 1 robot on every planet


---------


Synthetic is good per se, but has two problems:

1) It comes way too late into play, sometimes you can fish for the required techs for decades

2) Pop assimilation is borked since patch 3.6, as assimilated pops now become the basic, unmodded version of your Synth species without traits. Modding them into your proper custom version stacks to extremely long amounts later in the game.

You make some good points there, I will try Cybernetics out in my games.

[TommyFortress]

Originally posted by HappySack:

Originally posted by TommyFortress:

how does it reduce that?

The more species there are the more lag is created which is why xeno-compatbility is so notoriously bad.

At least with Synthetic you can assimilate everyone into your superior robot species, and possibly only make a second research robot.

Ooohhh. didnt know more species meant more lag. Thank you. I'll try that out too.