Performance Issues

[FoeHammer]

I see people play with outrageous sized maps and multiple planets no problem but Despite my powerful computer I cant do that. I check what the game is using and its not even using 30% of my cpu is there a way to fix this? Mod or otherwise?

[sawdust3d]

1- what are your actual system specs?

2- are you checking that usage while the game is fully active?

3- What are the actually performance symptoms that are preventing you from playing effectively?

Folks need some info to be able to help.

[HappySack]

The easiest way to sum it up is that Stellaris doesn't run the best on high-end systems because they don't handle single-threading that well.

[FoeHammer]

Originally posted by sawdust3d:

1- what are your actual system specs?

2- are you checking that usage while the game is fully active?

3- What are the actually performance symptoms that are preventing you from playing effectively?

Folks need some info to be able to help.

rtx 3080 ti gpu
12th gen intel i-7 12700k cpu
32gb ddr4 ram
Task manager says stellaris is not using a lot of resources
Im trying to play on the largest vanilla map with standard settings about 100 years in and the game is going very slow

[FoeHammer]

Originally posted by HappySack:

The easiest way to sum it up is that Stellaris doesn't run the best on high-end systems because they don't handle single-threading that well.

Is there a mod or another fix I can use?

[PitGrunt]

The main sim thread can ony run on 1 core, the rest can be used only the others. It's why one thread will be at 100 and the rest much lower. I've had multiple cpu's that were 4 ghz and 4.5 ghz They all lagged in a late 800 star system map. The Pops in the galaxy have checks that use a lot of cpu then the AI stars building habitats. Ive stuck to 600 star maps for a long time and the late game lag is much less.

[sawdust3d]

Originally posted by Volerisks:

Originally posted by sawdust3d:

1- what are your actual system specs?

2- are you checking that usage while the game is fully active?

3- What are the actually performance symptoms that are preventing you from playing effectively?

Folks need some info to be able to help.

rtx 3080 ti gpu
12th gen intel i-7 12700k cpu
32gb ddr4 ram
Task manager says stellaris is not using a lot of resources
Im trying to play on the largest vanilla map with standard settings about 100 years in and the game is going very slow

Well you brought enough PC, no potato there.

Actually, you've got a little more PC there than the 11900k & 6900xt I'm using at the moment. So I'm wondering why you're hitting that wall so early.

I'm at year ~2370 on a Huge map and haven't seen an issue yet. I cranked up what few settings there are of that nature.

Granted I'm new here. There may be some setting recommendations others can make.

Personally always look for hardware solutions first, but I'm an odd duck like that.

-Your temps good? Are you thermal throttling your CPU?
-Did you remember turn on the XMP profile for your RAM?
-SSD not HDD, ya?

BTW, You'll want to use HWinfo with Rivatuner, ans set up an OSD (On Screen Display) to get actual real time performance data. Right down to each core if you want. It's my go-to software monitoring software, it's free too.

[Rabbit47]

It's not your hardware, or your software that's the issue. The game has been experiencing a slow decline for a while now. The reason being is because it uses an engine built in 2007, the Clausewitz Engine. Paradox has used it for literally every single game they've made. They've literally held the thing together with duct tape at this point, rebuilding and upgrading it countless times for their games.

Quote: "2020 CPU vs Clausewitz Engine is like an unstoppable force vs immovable object."

Paradox has been moving away from it and going to Unity; but the issue is that you can't simply port one game from an engine to another without extensive, time consuming effort.

Similar problems are experienced across all games that use this engine, the reality of the situation is that if your CPU multi-threads or has multiple cores, the worse your experience will be. Multi-threading and multiple core CPUs sacrifice individual CPU power and spreads it out across multiple cores allowing for better overall performance... Except where engines like this prefer single core use to multiple cores.

If you open your task manager mid game, go over to your CPU and turn on Logical Processors; you'll notice the game only uses one Core from your CPU.

Paradox is aware of the issue but they quite literally do not care. With every DLC released this game inches closer to it's grave. With every modern PC released the game phases out of performance expectations, etc, etc.

Pops are the biggest problem. As the game gets closer to endgame, populations in the game are so numerous and do so many things it's simply too much for your individual CPU core to handle, so the game slows. Pops being heavily reliant on CPU performance.

The only fix would be to make it so that pops grow incredibly slow, but also install a mod that increases their production per pop. Paradox has done this by implementing sliders in the game that control your population growth, but they haven't added a slider that increases the population production per pop for some reason. Outside of that there isn't much of a fix other than to buy an old gaming computer that has a single-threading CPU. Turning down your graphics and resolution can buy you maybe a half a century in the game, but there isn't much Paradox can do and there isn't much you can do either. Best bet is to find a mod that increases resource production per pop and turn down the growth speed to it's maximum.

Honestly they're probably just milking the game for the last amount of money they can get before they make a sequel with a better engine.

[Ramonkey]

Originally posted by Volerisks:

Originally posted by HappySack:

The easiest way to sum it up is that Stellaris doesn't run the best on high-end systems because they don't handle single-threading that well.

Is there a mod or another fix I can use?

The problem is the engine. You’re not gonna fix that with a mod

[Immortalis]

To me it's rather funny how you open with this

Originally posted by Rabbit47:

Paradox has been moving away from it and going to Unity; but the issue is that you can't simply port one game from an engine to another without extensive, time consuming effort.

And within two sentences go to this

Originally posted by Rabbit47:

Paradox is aware of the issue but they quite literally do not care. With every DLC released this game inches closer to it's grave. With every modern PC released the game phases out of performance expectations, etc, etc.

Paradox does know the limits of their engines. Paradox does know they need a more modern one for the new games. The issue, as you pointed out yourself is not "DuH!! Paradox doesn't care" the issue is "we cannot take the game files, drag them into Unreal engine and have the game suddenly work better". At best what you can look forward to is months, if not years of careful porting of the game into a new engine, making sure every piece fits neatly; at worst you'll need to completely rebuild the game, putting years of development inside it.

In either cases it won't be either a cheap nor a quick job and it will most certainly not be worth it with the old games. It's possible they will create their own engine (software companies tend to be quite jealous of that part of the job and rather reluctanct to use the engine someone else's developed) for the next generation of game but IMHO the chance we'll see a Stellaris-port to Unreal engine (or any other engine) is close to nhil.

[pipo.p]

Originally posted by Rabbit47:

Similar problems are experienced across all games that use this engine, the reality of the situation is that if your CPU multi-threads or has multiple cores, the worse your experience will be. Multi-threading and multiple core CPUs sacrifice individual CPU power and spreads it out across multiple cores allowing for better overall performance... Except where engines like this prefer single core use to multiple cores.

It is not only Clausewitz, but any old engine. I have noticed over years how my ‎Intel Core2 Quad CPU (Q9550 @ 2.83GHz) from 2009 was apparently performing better than some "low end" modern CPUs. As you say, their core processors are individually less potent than one of my four cores, and I read that they have individually far less L2-cache (modern CPUs tend to have larger, global L3-cache). The technollogy gap in miniaturization is not that important, and modern CPU differ mostly in their "externals" and front end, and their strategy of use.

[Rabbit47]

Originally posted by Immortalis:

To me it's rather funny how you open with this

Originally posted by Rabbit47:

Paradox has been moving away from it and going to Unity; but the issue is that you can't simply port one game from an engine to another without extensive, time consuming effort.

And within two sentences go to this

Originally posted by Rabbit47:

Paradox is aware of the issue but they quite literally do not care. With every DLC released this game inches closer to it's grave. With every modern PC released the game phases out of performance expectations, etc, etc.

Paradox does know the limits of their engines. Paradox does know they need a more modern one for the new games. The issue, as you pointed out yourself is not "DuH!! Paradox doesn't care" the issue is "we cannot take the game files, drag them into Unreal engine and have the game suddenly work better". At best what you can look forward to is months, if not years of careful porting of the game into a new engine, making sure every piece fits neatly; at worst you'll need to completely rebuild the game, putting years of development inside it.

In either cases it won't be either a cheap nor a quick job and it will most certainly not be worth it with the old games. It's possible they will create their own engine (software companies tend to be quite jealous of that part of the job and rather reluctanct to use the engine someone else's developed) for the next generation of game but IMHO the chance we'll see a Stellaris-port to Unreal engine (or any other engine) is close to nhil.

The reason I say they don't care is because they haven't done much to remedy the issue they've known about for YEARS. Instead they're prioritizing DLC content, selling you $20 here and there for a game that is ultimately doomed. Nice DLC for a game that you can't play past 50 years in game because of the issues with the engine.

The issue is that they do not care, otherwise they would've started porting this game back in 2020 when the issue was starting to get worse. Or at the very least, announce a sequel. Three years later and all they've given us is a few more DLC and revamps of the same flawed system that, yes, is still sinking.

So yes, they don't care.

[VoiD]

Basically, you'd have to cripple the game further, more stars, sure, but don't fill up the galaxy with civs, destroy the late game by increasing the pop growth penalty even further, etc...

So no, it's not really playable on the largest settings, hell even with an i9 13900k I can still get some slowdown on a medium galaxy if the game goes on for long enough and/or there aren't enough genocidals cleaning up the galaxy on standard settings. Which are already gamebreaking for a lot of the game's content and certain origins, like the genocidals themselves who have no future and can no longer grow pops later on.

[Rabbit47]

Originally posted by pipo.p:

Originally posted by Rabbit47:

Similar problems are experienced across all games that use this engine, the reality of the situation is that if your CPU multi-threads or has multiple cores, the worse your experience will be. Multi-threading and multiple core CPUs sacrifice individual CPU power and spreads it out across multiple cores allowing for better overall performance... Except where engines like this prefer single core use to multiple cores.

It is not only Clausewitz, but any old engine. I have noticed over years how my ‎Intel Core2 Quad CPU (Q9550 @ 2.83GHz) from 2009 was apparently performing better than some "low end" modern CPUs. As you say, their core processors are individually less potent than one of my four cores, and I read that they have individually far less L2-cache (modern CPUs tend to have larger, global L3-cache).

Yeah It'll probably be a temporary thing, kind of how the first smart phones were utter dog crap for the first few years.

Eventually the multi-threading CPU cores today will outperform the older CPUs in terms of single core performance, but we're probably a decade or two away from that considering the market leans towards these insane 36 core CPU's that on an individual core basis perform worse that some 2000 models. Undoubtedly they are more powerful, but it's a lot of power gone to waste considering GPU technology is lagging behind and game companies are still using engines built around previous CPU tech that just is becoming obsolete with time. Some of these engines are almost 20 years old, it's time to upgrade ffs.

Stellaris is one of the few examples of this unfortunate outcome. I hope they port it, or at the very least make a sequel with a new engine.