Defense Platforms Poo?

[Akboris]

Was hoping that Defense platforms had more of a use, but they seem to suck and their power score is exaggerated? Any ideas on what to equip them with? They seem okay when compiled with a good fleet, but they dont seem to actually work as a replacement for a fleet.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Akbarogo:

They seem okay when compiled with a good fleet, but they dont seem to actually work as a replacement for a fleet.

Yup, you got it. That's how they work.

[Bored Peon]

1. You need to design your own and multiple types. Like make a few missile batteries, make some long range batteries, some hangars, etc. Although this is a pain because there is no replenish system like an assigned fleet.

2. It requires Unyielding and Eternal Vigilance to get the full force of 150k strength. Which will still not stop any crisis fleets or mass attackers.

Short of that they will inflict a bunch of losses, sometimes, depending upon the fleets against you.

I have found the most effective way to use them is to as bait. The AI will sit on their side until they have enough forces to overwhelm the station.

You can bait the AI in two ways:
1. Move your fleet to sit in the adjacent system (at the edge to jump right back.)
2. Have your fleet cloaked in the system.
Then once the AI enters the system you spring the ambush.

[Warspawn]

The best use of defense platforms I've found is to split the DPS of the attacker off from a single starbase defending into multiple targets. Then ideally you want any enemy fleets to be under fire from both the defense platform as well as your base from as far away as possible for as long as possible. Are you using Target Uplinks, Jammers and Disruption Fields? Your defense platforms already start with +30% range, so supporting that firepower from a base's buildings really helps.

I'm a big fan of using Hangars and point defense in my defense platforms, since you're still fighting with the strike craft even if the platform gets nailed (yeah, zero evasion for platforms means that will probably happen), and those also keep smaller ships that have higher evasion from closing and wrecking you. Tier 3 strike craft have that 100% accuracy and 100% tracking to punish corvette swarms.

Of course, one really nice thing that people forget is the pure deterrence and the 'speed bump' effect defense platforms have...

o7

~War~

[Akboris]

Wondering if I should design a class that has good armor/shields and spam missiles on them with decent range so they can support a fleet and defend

[Imperium]

I tried to max out defenses and starbases, but alas its just not worth it. The sheer amount of upkeep defense platforms have makes them unviable. Even at 300k power with fallen empire tech the station looses pretty easily to fleet half its power. But it doesnt mean they are useless, they handle pirates just fine with no weapons, and they have VERY good economic buildings, like solar power plants, food plants, nebula refineries and so on.

OH but there are some insane mods out there, its possible to make some indestructible fortresses if it is what you enjoy :D

[EthanT]

Theyre not meant to wipe enemy fleets. Theyre meant to slow and damage enemy fleets giving you time to redeploy or engage with your fleet.

[Locklave]

They don't buy any actual time defending as they explode fast and contribute to war score loss when destroyed. They are garbage and a complete waste of alloys. I'm not even going to get into having to upgrade them like ships.

Don't build them.

[CrUsHeR]

Starbases and platforms are never supposed to replace fleets. Just think about it from a balancing perspective - if you could make a bastion so strong that no fleets could ever defeat it, the game was simply broken beyond repair. Instead they can support your fleets very well, especially with their great tankiness through extreme hull strength.


It may work in the early game for deterrence mainly due to their... reversely proportional fleet power, i.e. early starholds with hangars quickly show greater power numbers than entire GA fleets, and then incrementally fall back to the point where every fleet has multiple times the power of your strongest bastion. So the longer the game goes, the more useless they are on their own.

Basically as soon as your enemy discovers autocannons, their own fleet power goes up so quickly that they're no longer scared of attacking your bastions.



Defensive platforms specifically offer a solution in between:

> unlike the internal starbase weapons, you can fully customize the platform weapons (also why the latest building only adds more defensive platform slots instead of more starbase weapons)

> they can actually be killed one by one, rather than having a starbase with millions of hull points doing full damage until it is dead
(i.e. lots of burst power at combat start, diminishing if you don't support with a fleet, keeping a fair initiative for the attacking party)

> since they get destroyed in combat, the inevitably victorious attacker can only take over a much weaker version of your starbase (which is good for you, the defensive camper)

> the repeatable research for defensive platforms adds 10% hull/damage each, and stacks with the other improvements for the individual components (i.e. if you decide to research these, they are pretty strong)




Additionally, there are several measures to minimize your need for bastions:

> rushing Gateways (or Hyper Relays at least)

> controlling the Terminal Egress system

> having listening posts / detection arrays / yuht interferometer / a sentry array ASAP in order to anticipate attacks and react accordingly

> setting the Wormhole spawn frequency to 0.25x in game settings, to prevent the endless backdoor harassment by the AI

[ScreamCon]

They are nice for empires that make lots of alloys. But your suppose to use it like extra lining to your fleet. If your empire doesn't make excessive amounts of alloy don't build them.

[CBR JGWRR]

Static fortifications, without mobile support, have been irrelevant since the Maginot Line. Plan accordingly.

[Carolus Rex]

They are not really any more cost effective in terms of upfront cost or upkeep than ships, completely defeating the purpose of them as static defences.

Star bases are a joke as defences anyway, they can be defeated easily and quickly by basically any type of lower fleet power fleets while inflicting insignificant casualties. The only way to reliably even slow down enemy fleets is having fortress worlds with thousands of army strength in every choke point.

The game implies they are meant to be like fortifications but completely fail to actually do the things fortifications are meant for and actually do in real life. They should be basically impossible to take by just attacking them with random fleets and require actual preparation and specialised ships to actually effectively attack them.

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by CBR JGWRR:

Static fortifications, without mobile support, have been irrelevant since the Maginot Line. Plan accordingly.

Static defences in the setting of Stellaris if they were realistic would, if anything, make attacks with any size fleet seem like charging the Maginot line with a pocket knife.

I get why they need to make it easier for balancing reasons, but defences are far too weak and planets are far too vulnerable as it is.

[NerdExtrodinare]

While I'd enjoy better defense platforms I understand why they're not better. I just wish their power projection was more accurate.

[Bored Peon]

Starbases are like "hold my beer, ill be right back"
If you do not come right back your beer is gone.

[Danny]

I have WON wars without firing a single shot, because the AI empire was unwilling to fight my border station ^^