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2b is a you issue
3 is a natural response to somebody trashing your place
If you want to paint the map, just play FP/DE.
1.) No ♥♥♥♥ you wouldn't fight in this scenario IE "doesn't apply here"
2b.) Don't be a jerk - yes sometimes I have sized them up wrong sure, but that doesn't change the message in this post in the slightest. You are just trying to be clever and waste my time with dumb statements like that.
3.) Sure but when would you be fighting an alien species - "sue for peace" and then they just leave and some other group.
The reality of how this would go:
Mean Aliens: "You are going to do everything we say, and be our vassal"
Not Mean Aliens: "No, we would rather die or something"
*war happens because of that*
Maybe they win and fend them off
BUT YOU CANNOT EVEN START THAT UNLESS YOU GET THEM TO AGREE TO THE VASSAL FIRST.
How it actually goes
Mean Aliens: "You are going to do everything we say, and be our vassal"
Not Mean Aliens: "No, we would rather die or something"
Mean Aliens: "Well those 2 systems you got are ours!"
*war happens because of that*
Mean Aliens: "See I just took your two other worlds, you are ours now"
Not Mean Aliens: "We have a treaty for another 5 years sir..."
And honestly I would just drop the vassal war reason & update the "Sue for Peace" screen to have an after war negotiation - yeah we wanted you as a vassal but I'll take 1k food instead...
The current system makes 0 sense. But again I'd love to hear one reason how this is a "good system".
I m confused, for what do you need the aliens to agree to vassal first?
the demand-subjucation wars are for when the aliens dont agree to the vassal?
you do not need aliens to agree to vassal to fight a war against them...
are we talking about integration here, as in absorbing an empire?
but... if you had a war to claim systems, why should you be able to demand them to vassal afterwards?
I think allowing to negotiate the war goal down in the "Sue for Peace" screen makes sense and would vastly benefit the game
the current system with just win, loose or draw is kinda stupid
i think the idea behind why the war system is the way it is right now, is to make it clear to all players when another player is about to aquire more land
as in, a player can not suddenly steamroll another player and take all their land without everyone else being able to see it coming
so players dont suddenly double their empire size in late game
As long as you win there is no drawback but whatever partial victory you end up with any fragment of the opponent is likely going to submit to someone else. this is not a problem of the casus belli but more the way empires are so prone to fold or make federations so easily.
One good thing about the subjugation war goal is it allows you to integrate an empire saving you from all that influence that a claim war would cost.
Subjugate them, claim their worlds, wait 10 years, change the sub agreement to integration.
I could do with 3 steps less without having to play purifier.
Isn't that a super ancient system? where you had to ask them to be your vassal and only got the casus belli if they rejected? that's been gone for years.
the 2 wars at the same time resulting in funny/weird/strange outcomes is a issue though, but if you are an experienced player you can work around it.
and i do think there should be some end game tech or ascension point to reduce truce duration too.
anyways the point of vassals is taking over territory without having to manage it, for better or worse. i find it to be quite influence efficient until you unlock total war.
it's not as bad now that you can build hyper relays/gateays/etc in vassal territory, but there are so many times in the past where i really wanted to take just 1 or 2 empty systems from a vassal and there is no simple way to do that.
integrating and re-releasing them seems like a lot of hassle for that.
The others can suffer greatly if they lose alot (loss of lives), but doesnt effect much on machine or hive minds.
I was told it is like that in there, call war wearies or something like that, but still doesnt feel right and i gave up playing this last year.
What I mean is if they decline to become subject/vassal, I am not able to start a war to change their mind. The option does not become available in the declare a war screen.. so I have to do a claim war or some other mechanism to get them weaker first. That's the part that doesn't make sense.
And in the specific case that caused this rant - I was playing on a very populated 600 star galaxy and got boxed in quickly. so I picked the weakest of that bunch - just a fight a way out of my box. They said no, I couldn't go to war so claimed 5 of their star systems. After I won that war, the next year they became a vassal to someone on the other side of the galaxy and now I had to war with 2 aliens instead of getting my real goal accomplished.
I still think the biggest issue is the sue for peace/declare war just needs more depth - Why I started a war (and what lie I told my people) is probably not the same for why I agree to end it. Will agree to peace if you pay reparations for all the damage you did, or keep your borders open for 10 years, don't become anyone's vassal, etc etc. (Think trade screen).
you have to be superior to them in the games scoring system to do a vassal war. or pick up domination tradition then you can probably do it regardless.
then you'd be here crying you couldn't declare a subjugation war goal on someone because someone else forced them not to become a vassal for 10 years, and we all know the truce is the true god power in this game. :D
Nah not a good system, but I don't think its a bad system either. The dev's are using what they've already programmed on hand.
But then you wouldn't be able to subjugate which was the whole point of the overlords dlc. I doubt the dev's would delete something that's propping up their selling features.
Part of the war strategy of this game is winning the war, another part to the strategy is warring in such a way your rivals don't get them as vassals. If you empty an empire it will often defect to a local stronger power. If you don't want this you must take as much of that empire via war as you can in one go. Or balance the strength of targets.
For example instead of going for the mid size empire next to a big one that would become a small next to a big. Go for the big and reduce them down to mid size like the other and game the diplomacy.
It is better to have two powers hate each other and lose some territory, then it is they like each other and federate. But then again federations can often be infiltrated and torn apart.