science ships - Need help as a newbie

[Carlowitz]

So im new at the game. But ive watched one or two tutorials. Everyone says you should build many science ships and explore the world very fast. However hows that possible, since I only have like 2 scientist early on and cant get any more? Can you use the ships withouth scientist?

[HappySack]

No, and the tutorials must be outdated because they reworked leaders so they can't be spammed out anymore but on the upside they are a lot more powerful.

[The Tear Collector]

I'm a newbie as well, but when I started the game, I already had 2 scientists, 1 Govenour and 1 Admiral.
I was still able to recruit another scientist for a third science ship. That's what I went with and it worked quite well.
Remember: It's literally my first time playing and it's not my ambition to min-max (and probably never will)

[VinceP1974]

The Leader Capacity Max is a new thing put in the game within the past few months. So any older video that recommends creating anything that needs a leader is not taking this new limit into consideration.

The current game I'm playing, my empire started with a 8 Leader Cap. I think 4 or 5 were already used leaving me with the ability to create the rest. It definitely impacts a lot of things ... number of planet governors, admirals for fleets, scientists for science ships. They all are drawing from this very low pool of people.

[The Tear Collector]

Originally posted by VinceP1974:

The Leader Capacity Max is a new thing put in the game within the past few months. So any older video that recommends creating anything that needs a leader is not taking this new limit into consideration.

The current game I'm playing, my empire started with a 8 Leader Cap. I think 4 or 5 were already used leaving me with the ability to create the rest. It definitely impacts a lot of things ... number of planet governors, admirals for fleets, scientists for science ships. They all are drawing from this very low pool of people.

But aren't Governors applying their boni to the whole sector they govern?
When I click a planet without a governor it displays a smaller picture with my sector governor.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Carlowitz:

However hows that possible, since I only have like 2 scientist early on and cant get any more? Can you use the ships withouth scientist?

1) You can go overcap, it's expensive but doable.

2) Science ships could be used to explore without leaders after you have at least +1 to your sensors (civics, Gravitic Sensor tech, Crystalline sensors edict).

3) Even using basic science ships - you can have many of them doing exploration job. Just order them to move to unknown jump-point and transfer a leader on it for a jump itself only.

It's useful and important as exploration >>> survey. You should find all nearby habitable planets, nice chokepoints and neighbors first (of course you're also have a high priority on surveying systems with habitable planets or leading to those chokepoints - everything else could wait).

4) Admirals could do exploration job too (leading military fleet of course).

[corisai]

Originally posted by The Penitent Man:

But aren't Governors applying their boni to the whole sector they govern?
When I click a planet without a governor it displays a smaller picture with my sector governor.

Almost no.

Sector governor apply only his own level bonus to planets inside sector, so PER LEVEL:

• +2% Resources from Jobs
  
• −2% Empire Size from Pops
  
• −3 Crime

Governor trait bonuses applied ONLY to planet they're govern.

P.S. It still provide a lot more gain from governors then it was before.
P.P.S. Best governors are Alloy/CG making one >> Science one >> everything else so turn best planets into sectors and spread them around in mid- and late- game. Visionary governors (empire-wide traits) could be used on Unity / Basic resource planets.

[Chthonic Guardian]

I always build a 2nd one right away, by the time it is built I am jut about able to afford to get the scientist. Then I build a 3rd as soon as I can afford the 3rd scientist.
End up with leader, admiral, governor, 3 scientist for my 6 leaders.
There is no way you can spam scientists until late game when you are so wealthy the penalty doesn't matter, but early game those penalties for over the leader cap will crush you and put you behind on development.

[VinceP1974]

So i'm realizing that even I haven't absorbed the recent changes, because it used to be the science ship couldn't be without a leader, but I guess that is no longer true.

[Chthonic Guardian]

Originally posted by VinceP1974:

So i'm realizing that even I haven't absorbed the recent changes, because it used to be the science ship couldn't be without a leader, but I guess that is no longer true.

No, it is true.
Well if you want to use the ship for anything other than drydock space taker.
You can produce 600 of them if you want but you can only use those that you put a leader into.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Chthonic Guardian:

Well if you want to use the ship for anything other than drydock space taker.

With at least +1 to Sensors they could explore on their own.

Originally posted by Chthonic Guardian:

You can produce 600 of them if you want but you can only use those that you put a leader into.

Yes, but by having a bit of extra science ships - you could teleport leader around, saving time on moverment between systems.

[Theutus]

The last major update from version 3.7 to 3.8 royally forked up that strategy. That's a major flaw with this "style" of development.

I personally froze my game at 3.7 using the beta feature in steam

[corisai]

Originally posted by Theutus:

The last major update from version 3.7 to 3.8 royally forked up that strategy.

Not even for a slightest.

If you don't know - you need scientist to present on board of space ship only during a jump to unknow system, so exploration is not affected at all (as you also could send Admiral on exploration).

[Chthonic Guardian]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Chthonic Guardian:

Well if you want to use the ship for anything other than drydock space taker.

With at least +1 to Sensors they could explore on their own.

Originally posted by Chthonic Guardian:

You can produce 600 of them if you want but you can only use those that you put a leader into.

Yes, but by having a bit of extra science ships - you could teleport leader around, saving time on moverment between systems.

Yes, I have produced an extra or 2 to stage them in far reaches etc. for exactly that reason.

I have never been able to use an unmanned science ship to do anything but move it around, but I am a newbie so I will take your word for it.

How do you get this +1 sensor for science ships? Are you talking about upgrading the sensor in ship design? I didn't even know science ship was in there. I will have to look next time in game. Thanks.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Chthonic Guardian:

I have never been able to use an unmanned science ship to do anything but move it around

That's the point - with sensors better then basic they will automatically explore nearby systems (except system being in nebula) so you just sending them forward to do exploration.

Unmanned science ships are NOT allowed to survey in vanila game.

Originally posted by Chthonic Guardian:

How do you get this +1 sensor for science ships?

Civilian ships are upgraded automatically and instantly (starbases automatically too but could be not instantly if you're having a deficit of advanced resources).

So you need to get +1 sensor range. A few ways to do it:

• Easiest and 100% reliable - research a Gravitic Sensors technology.
  
• Crystalline sensors edict - need to have a source of Rare crystals (usually from mining first - need a tech for them & source of crystals inside your borders).
  
• Stargazers Hivemind civic - First Contact DLC & Utopia DLC, hardmode game.
  
• Deep Space Explorer Destiny perk if you're owning Paragon DLC. Yes, I'm crazy (it will take faaar more to level scientist to lvl 8 then to unlock Gravitic).

[AurumHawke]

Science ship design upgrades automatically when you research sensor, thruster, or drive tech. Same as other hidden designs like constructors, colony ships, and starbases...
Otherwise you need an edict, trait, or some other source to boost sensors - namely the crystal sensor edict enabled by the lithoid crystal production trait.
Or get lucky with anomalies and get the scientist that comes with sensor tech (if this event still exists).

Even if you're revealing systems by sensors you still need to survey in order to take a system.
And sensors don't go through nebulae, so you'd have to divert a scientist to the ship anyways to get through those.
It sounds like a PITA to micromanage that.