How do you form a defensive pact?

[Kalemenos]

This very question produces no answers on google, only discussions with people who have them, discuss their value or problems, etc.

I'm trying to learn how to do this. I have an Embassy with an Empire. I open the Diplomacy window, and the Attitude says "Friendly," the Diplomacy Stance says cooperative. I expect to see "form defensive pact" or something in the list of scroll-down-able actions on the right, and it's not there. How concretely is this accomplished? Am I looking in the right place?

[IPWIW]

what's the status of the empires?at war/vassal/federation?wiki says no inward perfection civic,which you might not see without intel

[Kalemenos]

Thanks for answering. No wars currently. If they are vassals or in federations with others, does that exclude the possibility of a defensive pact? Would a spy help me find out if they have inward perfection?

[Razorblade]

Originally posted by Kalemenos:

Thanks for answering. No wars currently. If they are vassals or in federations with others, does that exclude the possibility of a defensive pact?

Yes. Federations' military foreign policy is shared between all members.

If you want an alliance with the Federations' members, you must ask a Federation member to join their Federation, and be approved via a vote. If you want a Non-Aggression pact with the Federations' members, you have to ask a member for Federation Association Status and be approved via a vote.

[Schakar]

Several reasons why you can't form a Defensive Packt.

- they are not independend. Either in a federation or pet-state of another empire.
- they are fanatic Xenophobe. As far as I know they can't have any relations (research/trade/defensive). Or only if they offer it to you.
- they allready have to many diplomatics running and no influence left for another one.
- they are at war.
- some Civis block incoming diplomatics too even if they are friendly.

[felmari]

a lot of times hovering the cursor over it will tell you why they won't.

[Kalemenos]

Great info, thanks! The tip on hovering the cursor over the empire in Galaxy Map was a revelation. The lists why not is very informative, thanks again.

[Peter34]

You usually don't need to send an Envoy to spy on them, in order to gain basic information. Just get one or more diplomatic agreements with them, at the very least Establish Embassy although more is probably better (Research Agreement or Non-Aggression Pact, e.g.), and then let those run so that every month, your Trust Score ticks up. This gives you more and more intel on the other polity, the higher it gets, and once you reach something like 30, 40 or 50 you'll be able to see all the basics.

If you're going to send an Envoy, or several, then use them to Improve Relations. This builds up a bonus to Opinion. It works better if you're in Cooperative Diplomatic Stance, and it costs your Influence if you'e in Isolationist Stance or one or two of the others that I never use, or - I'm fairly sure - Suprematicist, which I often use in the late game or at least often in the end game.

Do note that there's a cap on how much Improve Relations can do. Once you've reached that cap, you want to only have 1 Envoy working on it to maintain the bonus - it can't go any higher (disclaimer: There might be special situations or bonuses that raises the cap to higher than normal, e.g. in some of the upcoming stuff from the First Contact DLC. But there will always be a cap of some kind, and once you hit it you don't want to have 2 or more Envoys trying to ingratiate themselves).

[mss73055]

Defensive pacts are expensive, with an upkeep of 1 influence a piece.
You only want these with proper allies.

[Kalemenos]

Awesome, good advice, thanks again!

[Sputnik]

This page may be the one you were looking for:
https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Diplomacy#Bilateral_agreements

Notably:
1. You need 'Excellent' relations with the target.
2. They can't be pursuing Inward Perfection,
3. They can't be part of a federation
4. They can't be at war

Bear in mind some of the downsides of a defensive pact:
1. It is expensive, costing you one influence per month.
2. If you'll ally is attacked you'll be at war. But he, not you. will have control over diplomacy with the attacker.
3. Rivals of your ally won't like you so much, reducing your trade opportunities and inviting aggro.
4. If it all gets too much ending a pact reduces your former ally's opinion of you by 100.

[Kalemenos]

Good info. I didn't know it was expensive.